Martins body language

[rammieib]

Another ref would have sent him off tonight. Maybe we should have hoped for this - only way to get him out the team!

[RiddingsRam]

The problem with Martin is that he can only play in 1 system and 1 way ! When he plays that's way and we as a team play that way he's fantastic but we can't play that system every game it's impossible so we need an option for games like this ! And Blackman could be it saw a few glimpses of what he could be capable of through the centre ! 

[Rev]

Maybe it's true we've changed the way we play, and now it doesn't suit Martin.

In which case why, he's by far the best player in a Derby shirt, Hughes excepted.

Build around him, not Ince, Blackman etc.

We seem to try and get the best out of everyone but Martin these days, to the detriment of overall performance. 

 

[rammieib]

The only defence I have - why has he not been tried with two up?

[Ambitious]

Martin excelled under McClaren's exciting free-flowing attacking style of football. 

He doesn't excel when asked to run the channels. 

We can't criticise him - it's Derby that's changed not Martin. 

 

[Mr Tibbs]

1 minute ago, Rammy1 said:

All players cheat but he's taking the piss now.  Cry wolf. Embarrassing to watch. 

 

No, Martin has profusely cheated since the day he arrived at the club. No one cares when it's winning us games and he's banging them in. Everyone needs a scapegoat though! Same happened to Rob Hulse.

He's having a shocking time at the moment, no hiding from that. Bent in next time? Why not, looks to me like Chris Martin needs a "drop" rather than a "rest". Couple of games out of it might do him and us good. Bent has waited patiently and deserves a run in the team.

 

[Ninos]

Martin has been ineffective it's true, but he's not the only problem. With no flair central midfielder (Butterfield is okay but he's not a Bryson or Hughes) and Thorne not in there, there is no one to play off Martin (Ince does now and again), and defences have sussed Martin out and we have no answer. It's time to put Blackman or Bent up top and see if we stretch the defence for Ince (and now Camara), just like we did versus Bristol City. 

[Posh Ram]

Wouldn't mind giving Bent a go although have seen nothing this season to indicate he'll be in any better form than Martin has been lately. I think he misses Bryson, a guy who really suited his style of play. Butterfield and Johnson to an extent are better at playing penetrative passes than short balls into a central man. In addition to that, we haven't had all that much quality out wide, with Ince quite hot and cold and Russell/Weimann struggling a fair bit. Hopefully Camara and Blackman can solve this, but wouldn't mind playing a front three of Camara-Blackman-Ince in the next match.

 

[TuffLuff]

I don't get this when people complain about him? Sometimes him trying to win free kicks doesn't work and it can get frustrating, but to me thats part of the game? A striker should be looking to win free kicks, it gets momentum for your team, it helps you control the game, it gets crosses into their box, it makes defenders think twice before getting around you again. Derby need to be in control of the game to win matches, actually I would argue they need to do these things more than they do!! I understand that its frustrating, but I do find the 'cheating' thing absolute nonsense. He's our striker, the best we have had in a long time. Maybe get behind him and we will see his best again?

 

BTW, before anyone says he was poor overall tonight, but i thought that actually came from a lack of support from Ince who should have been closer to him. I would also like to point out that Martin was actually part of our best moments of play tonight.

 

[harryram]

28 minutes ago, YouRams said:

He's had the ball into his feet on numerous occasions lately and it's pinged off him or he's played an awful pass. He had it in at feet when he was chucking himself to the floor again tonight too. I'm a huge Martin fan but there is no way his performances of late can be defended.

Or he's fell in a heap, that's all you hear on radio.

[Alph]

1 minute ago, Mr Tibbs said:

 

No, Martin has profusely cheated since the day he arrived at the club. No one cares when it's winning us games and he's banging them in. Everyone needs a scapegoat though! Same happened to Rob Hulse.

He's having a shocking time at the moment, no hiding from that. Bent in next time? Why not, looks to me like Chris Martin needs a "drop" rather than a "rest". Couple of games out of it might do him and us good. Bent has waited patiently and deserves a run in the team.

 

Agree. He's been buying free kicks for years. And I wish that was the problem with him right now. Because there's the more serious issue of his performance for the other 89 minutes. 

There was a time when people would question the intelligence of McClaren too heavily relying on Plan A. They had a point in a way. If a team could stop plan A then we were in the pooh. But it was a bloody hard team to stop.

Now we probably have a few ways of going about the game. But by not relying on a certain approach you sometimes miss a trick. I tried and tested approach that everyone understands.  

"If Martin gets injured then we're screwed. We rely on him too much" 

While true, who do you rely on if not your best players? Now that we don't rely on him so much his qualities are being wasted at times

Can't have it both ways. All teams have a weakness. Clement is strong where Mac was weak. But his weakness is where Mac was strong. Time will tell if Clement can deliver a more complete team. So far I'd say it's close

[Rammy1]

Just now, Mr Tibbs said:

 

No, Martin has profusely cheated since the day he arrived at the club. No one cares when it's winning us games and he's banging them in. Everyone needs a scapegoat though! Same happened to Rob Hulse.

He's having a shocking time at the moment, no hiding from that. Bent in next time? Why not, looks to me like Chris Martin needs a "drop" rather than a "rest". Couple of games out of it might do him and us good. Bent has waited patiently and deserves a run in the team.

 

Take ur point but. He dropping like a fly now at EVERY opportunity when before when it was going for him he would stand up at least a limitless bit more. Not a great example is it tho for a captain. 

[Rammy1]

Just now, Alpha said:

Agree. He's been buying free kicks for years. And I wish that was the problem with him right now. Because there's the more serious issue of his performance for the other 89 minutes. 

There was a time when people would question the intelligence of McClaren too heavily relying on Plan A. They had a point in a way. If a team could stop plan A then we were in the pooh. But it was a bloody hard team to stop.

Now we probably have a few ways of going about the game. But by not relying on a certain approach you sometimes miss a trick. I tried and tested approach that everyone understands.  

"If Martin gets injured then we're screwed. We rely on him too much" 

While true, who do you rely on if not your best players? Now that we don't rely on him so much his qualities are being wasted at times

Can't have it both ways. All teams have a weakness. Clement is strong where Mac was weak. But his weakness is where Mac was strong. Time will tell if Clement can deliver a more complete team. So far I'd say it's close

If "Martin gets injured we're screwed. "

Are u deluded 

just say we do get up to the prem. would u honestly play him. Not a chance. He's a championship striker. A good one in the right setup. But not for this team anymore. Wake upWake up

 

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Agree. He's been buying free kicks for years. And I wish that was the problem with him right now. Because there's the more serious issue of his performance for the other 89 minutes. 

There was a time when people would question the intelligence of McClaren too heavily relying on Plan A. They had a point in a way. If a team could stop plan A then we were in the pooh. But it was a bloody hard team to stop.

Now we probably have a few ways of going about the game. But by not relying on a certain approach you sometimes miss a trick. I tried and tested approach that everyone understands.  

"If Martin gets injured then we're screwed. We rely on him too much" 

While true, who do you rely on if not your best players? Now that we don't rely on him so much his qualities are being wasted at times

Can't have it both ways. All teams have a weakness. Clement is strong where Mac was weak. But his weakness is where Mac was strong. Time will tell if Clement can deliver a more complete team. So far I'd say it's close

 

Pop Shackell, Carson and Thorne into our side this time last year, I'd suggest we'd not be in this league now?

[Rammy1]

Just now, reveldevil said:

 

Pop Shackell, Carson and Thorne into our side this time last year, I'd suggest we'd not be in this league now?

Good shout 

agree

[Ninos]

3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I don't get this when people complain about him? Sometimes him trying to win free kicks doesn't work and it can get frustrating, but to me thats part of the game? A striker should be looking to win free kicks, it gets momentum for your team, it helps you control the game, it gets crosses into their box, it makes defenders think twice before getting around you again. Derby need to be in control of the game to win matches, actually I would argue they need to do these things more than they do!! I understand that its frustrating, but I do find the 'cheating' thing absolute nonsense. He's our striker, the best we have had in a long time. Maybe get behind him and we will see his best again?

 

BTW, before anyone says he was poor overall tonight, but i thought that actually came from a lack of support from Ince who should have been closer to him. I would also like to point out that Martin was actually part of our best moments of play tonight.

 

Disagree. Ince TRIED to find Martin too much, but he was hidden most of the time. So the pass would get picked off and it made Ince look like he was passing to the other team. In a sense, they were both at fault: martins runs were mostly poor, but Ince should have not tried to force balls though to a marked man. This was especially true in the first half. Yes, Martin had 2-3 nice little flicks, one of which was really nice, but that was the extent of it. And i agree with you about strikers winning free kicks, but the reality is that he's not winning hardly any free kicks now, he's just surrendering the ball. 

[TuffLuff]

3 minutes ago, Rammy1 said:

Take ur point but. He dropping like a fly now at EVERY opportunity when before when it was going for him he would stand up at least a limitless bit more. Not a great example is it tho for a captain. 

Decisions aren't going for him, I dont think its EVERY time but when they aren't going for you it makes it all seem worse than it probably is. He just doesn't quite seem 'on par' with everyone at the minute. But then again I would argue that decision making and other players taking responsibility with the ball is a big problem at the minute. In that I think they look to pass to Martin in times when he plain and simply doesn't want it, or at the very least, expect it. My bigger fault tonight was with Ince, who's job is to really get around Martin and anticipate knock ons and passes but seemed too far away from him all night.

[Bridgford Ram]

3 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

 

Pop Shackell, Carson and Thorne into our side this time last year, I'd suggest we'd not be in this league now?

Is Jason's dad decent then?

[Rev]

1 minute ago, Bridgford Ram said:

Is Jason's dad decent then?

No idea, I was referring to Jason's half dozen illegitimate kids, all spawned from teammates wives, allegedly! 

[duncanjwitham]

24 minutes ago, rammieib said:

The only defence I have - why has he not been tried with two up?

Because we don't have the midfield to play 2 up. We basically played 2 up front tonight anyway, with Ince pushed right up alongside Martin. And we got run absolutely ragged. Just like we did when we tried it at the end of the boro game, and in the second half against Hartlepool.  Martin doesn't need another striker alongside him, he needs balls into feet and people running off him, which he got almost none of tonight.  I'm not surprised his body language is bad, he's one of the best strikers in the league, but clement has absolutely no interest in playing to his strengths, and when we don't play well, he gets all the blame.