The Last 20 Minutes

[Kernow]

This isn't a post moaning, I'm very happy with the win even though we weren't at our best.

Why do you think that Clement prefers to be cautious and patient in the first half and beginning of the second to then go for it with only 20 minutes left? Some of our attacks have been fantastic, for example for Bent's goal today. If we had regular attacks like that throughout the game I would struggle to see how anyone can comment negatively about Clement. Very solid at the back but maybe a little more urgency needed?

The final 20 minute push worked today but a lot of times it won't, like Birmingham away or Burnley at home. We knew Burnley would be solid at the back so surely quick incisive attacks would give us a better chance of cutting down the draws and turning them into wins.

It appears as Clement's initial priority is to not lose, then finally go for the win towards the end of the game. Not a criticism but I feel our football would be a lot easier on the eye if we could put teams to the sword early on.

[RIMBAUD]

I think he was told (or arrived at the conclusion himself) that we had to tighten up at the back.

Loads of Clough snr disciples will tell you that was his aim - build a solid spine/defence and then us that foundation to attack.

The end of last season we were embarrassing defensively.

It is taking a while for us to find our attacking mojo again.

It will return imo.

[duncanjwitham]

The problem is, I don't think we have tightened up. We've cut out most of the silly mistakes, and those we are making aren't really costing us like they were last season (see Carson today). But I think 6 weeks off for the players to clear their heads, and maybe a change of manager, would have gone along way to doing that anyway.  Overall, we're defending no better than we were at the start of last season - we still don't defend set pieces well, we still don't defend balls into the box well, and we still allow opposing players to run at our back 4 far too much.  And that's come at the expense of ruining our attacking game.

[KBB]

Try and make us as hard to beat as possible (mistakes aside, as even maldini used to make mistakes) and rely on forwards taking chances and half chances. Clement is doing what every single football manager in the world does, yet some expect us to be playing like a mix of rampant Barcelona, 1970s Holland, arsenal invincibles and peles Brazil. All game, every game.

we are going to play worse than today

we are going to play the same as today

we are going to play better than today

we will win, lose and draw any of those games. That's football.

[RIMBAUD]

well in 9 league games we've let in 7.

the last 9 league games last season we let in 16

[DesertRam]

MK Dons can consider themselves very unlucky not to get a couple more goals, I would have thought,

however, only Boro have conceded less goals than we have.

[KBB]

MK Dons can consider themselves very unlucky not to get a couple more goals, I would have thought,

however, only Boro have conceded less goals than we have.

not the same boro who some on here said took us apart, taught us a footballing lesson, dominated all game and are certain for promotion is it?

[Chester40]

This isn't a post moaning, I'm very happy with the win even though we weren't at our best.

Why do you think that Clement prefers to be cautious and patient in the first half and beginning of the second to then go for it with only 20 minutes left? Some of our attacks have been fantastic, for example for Bent's goal today. If we had regular attacks like that throughout the game I would struggle to see how anyone can comment negatively about Clement. Very solid at the back but maybe a little more urgency needed?

The final 20 minute push worked today but a lot of times it won't, like Birmingham away or Burnley at home. We knew Burnley would be solid at the back so surely quick incisive attacks would give us a better chance of cutting down the draws and turning them into wins.

It appears as Clement's initial priority is to not lose, then finally go for the win towards the end of the game. Not a criticism but I feel our football would be a lot easier on the eye if we could put teams to the sword early on.

Agree, we looked good for 20mins .poor for 70mins, so which is the real Derby? I think the former.  People saying we deserved the win doesn't sit well for me. It's like setting off late for an important meeting, getting lost...then speeding all the way there and saying 'see, told you we'd not get caught'...well inevitably one day you will.  Don't see why defence is sitting so deep, why passing is so slow and pressing so minimal...until late on. Needs addressing.

[Tombo]

Agree, we looked good for 20mins .poor for 70mins, so which is the real Derby? I think the former.  People saying we deserved the win doesn't sit well for me. It's like setting off late for an important meeting, getting lost...then speeding all the way there and saying 'see, told you we'd not get caught'...well inevitably one day you will.  Don't see why defence is sitting so deep, why passing is so slow and pressing so minimal...until late on. Needs addressing.

Because that's how you go about having the second best defensive record in the league. Would you prefer us to run around chasing shadows like Craig Ramage always demands?

Do Middlesbrough ever press teams? Do Ipswich? Do Burnley? Three of the leagues best 'miserly' sides in defense. They don't, they set up a solid bank of four and become hard to break down. It's really odd that people complain that we never press anybody, but wonder how teams like Burnley can shut us out. Put two and two together.

We can be Middlesbrough at the back and Derby County at the front. That's the ideal. If we keep the opposition out, we've got an attacking, positive style that means we will score goals. It's about patience.

[Mostyn6]

Agree, we looked good for 20mins .poor for 70mins, so which is the real Derby? I think the former.  People saying we deserved the win doesn't sit well for me. It's like setting off late for an important meeting, getting lost...then speeding all the way there and saying 'see, told you we'd not get caught'...well inevitably one day you will.  Don't see why defence is sitting so deep, why passing is so slow and pressing so minimal...until late on. Needs addressing.

absolute bull sausage. The game is 90mins long (minimum) there's no hard and fast rule that says you must score your goals at any specific point during that 90 to be considered deserving or otherwise. We DID deserve the win simply cos collectively our players performed better than their players. Our goalkeeper made better saves than their GK, Our defenders defended better. Our strikers finished better.

Now if you're asking which team performed most to their potential, that's a different question, as you'd probably suggest our team is head and shoulders above their team and we should be beating them handsomely. However, our 5/10 is better than their 8/10.

[duncanjwitham]

You can't play possession football if you're sitting too deep though. Either the midfield sits deep aswell, and the forwards get isolated, or the midfield pushes on, the back 4 has nobody to pass to and you end up hoofing it.  Boro, Burnley and Ipswich all play far more direct than we do for this very reason.  If clement wants to play like this, he needs to set up the rest of the team to match it.

[Chester40]

 I'm not disagreeing with the argument or theory you're proposing, I was happy enough with the Burnley performance, and I loved the Billy promotion  team who could dig in, be solid and then win 'ugly'.  I just don't feel TODAY that's what I saw. We looked disjointed, sloppy and a bit clueless for 60-70 mins against inferior opposition. I think the game COULD have been over and the fact it wasn't was due to good luck rather than planning. Fair play to PC, he used the bench and we got the win. I think if we'd started with a bit of urgency and were more aggressive, fast paced and forward thinking with our positioning and passing we could have won more easily and completely on our own merits. Could be wrong of course!

[PistoldPete2]

MK Dons can consider themselves very unlucky not to get a couple more goals, I would have thought,

however, only Boro have conceded less goals than we have.

don't think mk Dons were any more unlucky not to get 2 more goals than we were. Russell hit the woodwork ince had perfectly good goal disallowed. Just one of those games 

[Tombo]

You can't play possession football if you're sitting too deep though. Either the midfield sits deep aswell, and the forwards get isolated, or the midfield pushes on, the back 4 has nobody to pass to and you end up hoofing it.  Boro, Burnley and Ipswich all play far more direct than we do for this very reason.  If clement wants to play like this, he needs to set up the rest of the team to match it.

That's simply not true. When the defence gets the ball sitting deep, you can slowly and patiently move up the pitch passing the ball. You're going to have at least one DM that's close to the defenders and our wingers track back a lot. Always plenty of passing. We were deep today and there were very few long desperate punts.

[duncanjwitham]

That's simply not true. When the defence gets the ball sitting deep, you can slowly and patiently move up the pitch passing the ball. You're going to have at least one DM that's close to the defenders and our wingers track back a lot. Always plenty of passing. We were deep today and there were very few long desperate punts.

yes, and when you've slowly and patiently passed the ball forwards, the other team have 10 men set up behind the ball and we're trying to pass through a brick wall.  There were very few punts because the midfield were all sitting deep as well. And because of this, we struggled to get the ball into the forwards feet, and when we did they had no support.

[Mostyn6]

 I'm not disagreeing with the argument or theory you're proposing, I was happy enough with the Burnley performance, and I loved the Billy promotion  team who could dig in, be solid and then win 'ugly'.  I just don't feel TODAY that's what I saw. We looked disjointed, sloppy and a bit clueless for 60-70 mins against inferior opposition. I think the game COULD have been over and the fact it wasn't was due to good luck rather than planning. Fair play to PC, he used the bench and we got the win. I think if we'd started with a bit of urgency and were more aggressive, fast paced and forward thinking with our positioning and passing we could have won more easily and completely on our own merits. Could be wrong of course!

that's a more fair assessment than your original one IMO. 

[Tombo]

yes, and when you've slowly and patiently passed the ball forwards, the other team have 10 men set up behind the ball and we're trying to pass through a brick wall.  There were very few punts because the midfield were all sitting deep as well. And because of this, we struggled to get the ball into the forwards feet, and when we did they had no support.

...but still scored 3 times.... despite no forward support...

So why does everyone else set up behind the ball and create a brick wall? Aren't they afraid of losing the ball all the time?

[Rev]

To be honest, sitting back and soaking up pressure tends to involve 2 banks of four, not the one we played with for 70 odd minutes.

It's also a tactic you'd employ away from home against a decent side in good form, not a pretty possession side in an awful run of form.

The tactics we saw today weren't some tactical masterstroke to grind them down and win the game in the last quarter, rather a very poor midfield performance rectified by a change of shape and personnel.

Saying that, I still think we deserved the win based on the last 20 minutes, the game is about sticking the ball in the net, which we did much better than them.

[duncanjwitham]

...but still scored 3 times.... despite no forward support...

So why does everyone else set up behind the ball and create a brick wall? Aren't they afraid of losing the ball all the time?

Teams set up behind the ball because they know that it's largely effective against us, and they aren't trying to play pretty, possession football when they do it. They know that if they try to out-football us, they are going to struggle.  Mk dons tried to outplay us today, and for large parts of the game they did, but they switched off at key times and we capitalised.  

[Tombo]

Teams set up behind the ball because they know that it's largely effective against us, and they aren't trying to play pretty, possession football when they do it. They know that if they try to out-football us, they are going to struggle.  Mk dons tried to outplay us today, and for large parts of the game they did, but they switched off at key times and we capitalised.  

They do it because it's largely effective against 90% of sides in this league, and they don't just do it to us. Plenty of managers appear to agree with me.