Rugby World Cup 2015

[StockholmRam]

Ach, I know we've got to take it on the chin but we don't get many better chances than yesterday to cause an upset. 

The wallabies at full pelt should of buried us, but sport occasionally doesn't follow the script. That what makes us Scots go back for more.

Looking forward,  the 6 nations should be a cracker, who knows what the lineups of the countries will be. Will Gatland move west, will the Irish be happy with a quarter final performance? How will the England managerial setup look? Could do worse than poaching Gatland and Edwards.

Anyway, when does Scotland v Belgium in the Davis cup final start.....

 

 

I hope Scotland get over this quickly and can bring their new found game to next 6 Nations... They were awesome.

[Tombo]

Tend to agree Albert. You just have to take it on the chin. We've all been there and been on the wrong end of these kind of things - we had a perfectly good try disallowed in the final against SA in 2007 that would have won us the game, but you get over it eventually. Hopefully Scotland will do as well. 

Still a shame though, they're focusing on the wrong things today - they played magnificently. Far better than anyone expected. I know Australia weren't really at the races for parts of the game, but even so, I'd have taken a lacklustre Australia side to take Scotland to the cleaners tbh. 

You clearly haven't dealt with this 8 years later because it wasn't a try. He was over the line.

[StockholmRam]

read this

referees can consult about matters involving clarification of offsides too.

 

http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/test/worldrugby/document/2015/09/21/7a7f2e84-29e4-4619-b9b3-28fffcabcf34/TMO_Protocol.pdf

 

I think that predates RWC 2015 Dav... Slowly but surely eradicating referees powers... Don't like it.

i think you should have TMO all in or not at all... There are no grey areas as yesterday's mistake saw. 

We managed 150 odd years without it and no uproar like yesterday!! 

[davenportram]

I think that predates RWC 2015 Dav... Slowly but surely eradicating referees powers... Don't like it.

i think you should have TMO all in or not at all... There are no grey areas as yesterday's mistake saw. 

We managed 150 odd years without it and no uproar like yesterday!! 

there wer e plenty of occasions where decisions were derided, usually in favour of southern hemisphere teams.

91 world cup final. England had an overlap, ball passed towards RorY Underwood. Campese goes for the ball one handed and knocks it to the ground. Ref gave a scrum when it was obviously a deliberate knock on. Should have been a penalty (maybe a penalty try) there was outrage.

[StaffsRam]

You clearly haven't dealt with this 8 years later because it wasn't a try. He was over the line.

Yes, you're right mate, although this is more my memory fail than anything.

Plus Mark Cueto. I read an article from before the WC where he's still adamant that it was a try. You're right though, it wasn't. 

[Gaspode]

Crazy that World Rugby have publicly stated he was wrong - opens the gates to all sorts of queries being raised when players don't agree with the referee - it will be like football in a few years time....Surely they should have just stated that they trusted the referees and that their decision was final would have been sufficient?...

Also a report on the radio this morning that they'd suggested that the ref 'need to go to the toilet' which was why he ran off the field - making a bad situation worse....

[Albert]

Crazy that World Rugby have publicly stated he was wrong - opens the gates to all sorts of queries being raised when players don't agree with the referee - it will be like football in a few years time....Surely they should have just stated that they trusted the referees and that their decision was final would have been sufficient?...

Also a report on the radio this morning that they'd suggested that the ref 'need to go to the toilet' which was why he ran off the field - making a bad situation worse....

The reports were that he left the field because a missile, likely a bottle, was thrown. The thing about the toilet was a joke when they were pressed for an answer, if I recall it was said as something like "he could have been going to the toilet for all we know", suggesting that their report on any possible incident isn't complete, not that he actually left to go to the toilet. 

[Gaspode]

fair enough - heard it second-hand, but it seemed feasible that they'd use it as an excuse given the mess they've made of the decision making...

[Albert]

fair enough - heard it second-hand, but it seemed feasible that they'd use it as an excuse given the mess they've made of the decision making...

It's been noted widely enough in the media, even the Australia coach mentioned it.

They didn't really make a mess. That call at any other time in the match would have been pretty par for the course, it was hard to spot for him exactly what happened, and offside was a fair call at full speed. The issue was that it happened in the 79th minute, with one of the weaker sides in the tournament leading. 

It's not as though Joubert had a great game, but it was hardly a nightmare moment beyond the disgraceful reaction it received in some areas. 

[rynny]

It's been noted widely enough in the media, even the Australia coach mentioned it.

They didn't really make a mess. That call at any other time in the match would have been pretty par for the course, it was hard to spot for him exactly what happened, and offside was a fair call at full speed. The issue was that it happened in the 79th minute, with one of the weaker sides in the tournament leading. 

It's not as though Joubert had a great game, but it was hardly a nightmare moment beyond the disgraceful reaction it received in some areas. 

From what I have read it is the fact he ran straight off the pitch without shaking the players' hand that has brought much more disgruntlement from the rugby world than the decision (other than in Scotland)

The water bottle that was thrown at him was done so as he entered the tunnel, so can't be used as a reason as to why he left the pitch so quickly.

[Albert]

From what I have read it is the fact he ran straight off the pitch without shaking the players' hand that has brought much more disgruntlement from the rugby world than the decision (other than in Scotland)

The water bottle that was thrown at him was done so as he entered the tunnel, so can't be used as a reason as to why he left the pitch so quickly.

Who knows. So it was confirmed that it was as he was running off then. 

To be honest about it, I don't really get any of the fuss about him running off. He probably had a reason, and ultimately I don't why anyone would really care. In these kinds of situations it usually goes something like:

Massive levels of outrage => Actual reason revealed => People feel guilty about prematurely blowing their outrage

For the record, most of the outrage I saw at the time was entirely about the decision. It moved onto him running (it was more a jog) about a day or so later once it became clear to most that the decision wasn't actually that bad. 

[rynny]

Who knows. So it was confirmed that it was as he was running off then. 

To be honest about it, I don't really get any of the fuss about him running off. He probably had a reason, and ultimately I don't why anyone would really care. In these kinds of situations it usually goes something like:

Massive levels of outrage => Actual reason revealed => People feel guilty about prematurely blowing their outrage

For the record, most of the outrage I saw at the time was entirely about the decision. It moved onto him running (it was more a jog) about a day or so later once it became clear to most that the decision wasn't actually that bad. 

From what I read, but who knows?

I wouldn't be happy if the ref just went off the pitch without a handshake to anyone. When I played rugby when I was younger for the school team we always had to shake the ref's hand, whether it be an appointed ref or a teacher from either school. Same with when I play football, even 5-a-side, and to the ones who think they are refereeing the FA cup final and had a shocker (had 1 last weekend where both sides were left dumbfounded by most of his decisions) everyone shook his hand and thanked him.

Agree with that about the outrage changing. Not seen the decision but from the photos and descriptions it sounded as though it was a difficult call, and probably would have been correctly called if it was the other way round? 

If he had called it correctly and you scored a try from the scrum, or got a drop goal, would there have been this much outrage with him leaving the field in the manner he did? Would he have left the field in the manner he did if he gave the scrum? Who knows, maybe in an alternate universe?

[Albert]

From what I read, but who knows?

I wouldn't be happy if the ref just went off the pitch without a handshake to anyone. When I played rugby when I was younger for the school team we always had to shake the ref's hand, whether it be an appointed ref or a teacher from either school. Same with when I play football, even 5-a-side, and to the ones who think they are refereeing the FA cup final and had a shocker (had 1 last weekend where both sides were left dumbfounded by most of his decisions) everyone shook his hand and thanked him.

Agree with that about the outrage changing. Not seen the decision but from the photos and descriptions it sounded as though it was a difficult call, and probably would have been correctly called if it was the other way round? 

If he had called it correctly and you scored a try from the scrum, or got a drop goal, would there have been this much outrage with him leaving the field in the manner he did? Would he have left the field in the manner he did if he gave the scrum? Who knows, maybe in an alternate universe?

From the moment Slipper's pass was intercepted, there was going to be some kind of outrage, and Joubert was probably going to receive it. A tight quarter final between Australia and a side like Scotland was always going to be like that, the only question is what they decided to pick on. Even if there was nothing to seemingly pick on, even without that penalty, people would still be screaming about that yellow (they still are actually). That said, if it wasn't something directly at the end like that, there probably wouldn't be missiles onto the pitch. 

Had Australia lost, it would have been comments about suspect refereeing around the scum throughout the game. Though I'd think the outrage would have been a lot less had Australia lost, even if it came down to the most suspect call of the tournament, people love an underdog story. 

People talk about it as though the game was over, when in reality, there was about about 90 seconds to go with Australia with a potential scrum feed. Yes, it could have gone all wrong, the time could have been chewed and Scotland could have won quite happily from there, but equally Scotland could have given away a penalty from the scrum, could have given too much space after it for a try for Australia, or Australia could have set up for the drop goal. The likely result was Scotland winning had it been a scrum for Australia I'd say, but it was hardly a forgone conclusion at that point. 

As for the outrage about him leaving the field in general, it wasn't even something many mentioned until about a day later. It was a casual jog off at the end as he blew the whistle. Since it happened it transformed from "why did he leave the pitch at the end?" to "JOUBERT LITERALLY SPRINTED OFF THE PITCH, WHAT A COWARD!!!!!!!" It looks like it's basically been the pot to put all the unfounded rage in as the things holding it together melted, particularly in regard to the TMO not being used (which was a big deal on the internet that night). 

Again, if all these people attacking him over that later find out he left the field after being hit by a coin or something, or he had to leave for some other reason, there are going to be a lot of red faces. To me though it comes across as being dangerously close to victim blaming, he clearly felt he had to leave for some reason, he is an experienced referee who has had to deal with it all before. Those not in presence of all of the facts should generally stay on the side of caution. Even if he only left due to fear of possible physical danger, that may well be justification enough. 

[davenportram]

It's been noted widely enough in the media, even the Australia coach mentioned it.

They didn't really make a mess. That call at any other time in the match would have been pretty par for the course, it was hard to spot for him exactly what happened, and offside was a fair call at full speed. The issue was that it happened in the 79th minute, with one of the weaker sides in the tournament leading. 

It's not as though Joubert had a great game, but it was hardly a nightmare moment beyond the disgraceful reaction it received in some areas. 

at that speed and the ball falling straight into the guys arms it could quite easily be deamed accidental - a similar thing happened in an earlier game from a ricochet from a kick - and therefore a scrum and not a penalty.

[Albert]

at that speed and the ball falling straight into the guys arms it could quite easily be deamed accidental - a similar thing happened in an earlier game from a ricochet from a kick - and therefore a scrum and not a penalty.

Phipps played him onside, World Rugby have directly stated it should have been a scrum, that's not really the question. It's more a case of it being reasonable that the decision was made like that at full speed. 

[davenportram]

Phipps played him onside, World Rugby have directly stated it should have been a scrum, that's not really the question. It's more a case of it being reasonable that the decision was made like that at full speed. 

irrespective of the Aussie playing the ball the speed it actually happened could have implied the scot acted on instinct to catch the ball and so it should gave been deemed accidental offside in my opinion. I am disagreeing with it being a penalty if as the referee judged no Australian played the ball.

[CWC1983]

I hope Scotland get over this quickly and can bring their new found game to next 6 Nations... They were awesome.

Vern Cotter has done a great job so far. A couple more years and Gregor Townsend's a shoe in. 

He done brilliantly at Glasgow over the past 2 seasons, and you can see shades of their play in the international team.

A few of the players are moving to France and England this season so the experience will do them good. 

Its a shame there's no support for the club game in Edinburgh and to a lesser extent Glasgow.

 

[StockholmRam]

Vern Cotter has done a great job so far. A couple more years and Gregor Townsend's a shoe in. 

He done brilliantly at Glasgow over the past 2 seasons, and you can see shades of their play in the international team.

A few of the players are moving to France and England this season so the experience will do them good. 

Its a shame there's no support for the club game in Edinburgh and to a lesser extent Glasgow.

 

What happened to borders Rugby mate...famous old clubs like Hawick and Galashiels... Andy Irvine was my Lions hero growing up...

[CWC1983]

What happened to borders Rugby mate...famous old clubs like Hawick and Galashiels... Andy Irvine was my Lions hero growing up...

Stockholm, they tried to embrace the professional age with 3 teams. The borders one was scrapped after a few seasons due to lack of interest and money. 

I guess the fans of the border teams ie gala, melrose etc didnt take to the "franchise" and stuck with their own border town teams. 

Unfortunately rugby is heading down the same route as football and the big will get bigger and the small guys will feed off the scraps.

Im no expert on the matter, i was brought up in the least rugby interested city in Scotland.

[StockholmRam]

Agree totally on rugby inching it's way towards football... RFU and FA look like twins at times in England..both self serving to an annoying degree.

Players not quite yet swearing at refs but they are slowly beginning to show what I perceive to be a lack of respect some of them...