Winning versus not losing

[Carl Sagan]

Of course we'd all like to win every game, but that's not going to happen. It seemed to me that Steve Mc came to the conclusion early on that the best tactic for getting out of this league was to always go for the win. Sometimes that would mean losing a game we shouldn't have, but on the whole it bagged a lot more points than shutting up shop and making sure we didn't get beaten. Often we would have only one defender on the bench and never more than two.

Clement has started unbeaten in the league, yet without a win. He's putting three defenders on the bench. Against Charlton, when we're searching in vain for a winning goal he doesn't use all his subs and leaves one of England's prolific finishers in Darren Bent on the bench. Is this a Real Madrid approach of "we must not lose"? Is it the right way to go?

It's early days and to an extent I can understand Clement's caution as a new manager, in that he'd put a lot of pressure on himself if we lost a few games early on, But fundamentally I think in the Championship you always have to go for the win. That also means having a lot of options on the bench to change the game, rather than keeping senior pros happy. For me it's all about winning rather than not losing, and I hope that PC picks that up quickly.

However, in the end McClaren didn't win promotion so does that mean a more cautious approach is right?

[Uptherams]

Of course we'd all like to win every game, but that's not going to happen. It seemed to me that Steve Mc came to the conclusion early on that the best tactic for getting out of this league was to always go for the win. Sometimes that would mean losing a game we shouldn't have, but on the whole it bagged a lot more points than shutting up shop and making sure we didn't get beaten. Often we would have only one defender on the bench and never more than two.

Clement has started unbeaten in the league, yet without a win. He's putting three defenders on the bench. Against Charlton, when we're searching in vain for a winning goal he doesn't use all his subs and leaves one of England's prolific finishers in Darren Bent on the bench. Is this a Real Madrid approach of "we must not lose"? Is it the right way to go?

It's early days and to an extent I can understand Clement's caution as a new manager, in that he'd put a lot of pressure on himself if we lost a few games early on, But fundamentally I think in the Championship you always have to go for the win. That also means having a lot of options on the bench to change the game, rather than keeping senior pros happy. For me it's all about winning rather than not losing, and I hope that PC picks that up quickly.

However, in the end McClaren didn't win promotion so does that mean a more cautious approach is right?

The thing is, we are a bit short on numbers. If Bryson and Hughes were both fit would we have so many defenders on the bench long term...As  far as I am aware, all the midfield and forward players that have been named in our squad are either playing, on the bench or injured. 

He has also said he is after a few new additions. So I think we will just have to wait a few weeks before we get a picture of his approach. 

[HeyHudson]

I have a theory on why Bent wasn't brought on...

Everything was going well for us. We were creating chances, moving the ball well and stretching Charlton. The only thing that was missing was clinical finishing.

"So why not bring Bent on? He's the definition of a goal poacher".

Well, as we know he struggles in a 4-3-3, so if we were to bring him on, we would most likely have to adapt our play around him. If 95% of what you're doing is working as it should (passing, movement, making chances), do you risk disrupting that on the off chance you can improve the 5% which is missing, or do you keep faith with what's working and hope the players out there can find that extra bit of quality?

Just a theory, but I can see why he was left on the bench.

 

[Mostyn6]

two bullshit myths in two responses. 1) We are short on numbers. Nonsense. 2) Bent "struggles" in a 4-3-3. Even bigger nonsense!

[Carl Sagan]

I have a theory on why Bent wasn't brought on...

Everything was going well for us. We were creating chances, moving the ball well and stretching Charlton. The only thing that was missing was clinical finishing.

"So why not bring Bent on? He's the definition of a goal poacher".

Well, as we know he struggles in a 4-3-3, so if we were to bring him on, we would most likely have to adapt our play around him. If 95% of what you're doing is working as it should (passing, movement, making chances), do you risk disrupting that on the off chance you can improve the 5% which is missing, or do you keep faith with what's working and hope the players out there can find that extra bit of quality?

Just a theory, but I can see why he was left on the bench.

 

You make my point for me in that in this game Clement preferred to stick with what was working reasonably well, instead of rolling the die and taking the gamble. Had McClaren been in that dugout it's inconceivable he wouldn't have brought Bent on. Like @Mostyn6, I disagree that Bent can't play in a certain formation. I think him and Martin are ideal to work off each other. But to bring him on would probably have been for Hendrick anyway.

[Carl Sagan]

two bullshit myths in two responses. 1) We are short on numbers. Nonsense. 2) Bent "struggles" in a 4-3-3. Even bigger nonsense!

Regarding (1), I completely agree and would have no issue with Calero and/or Bennett on the bench at the moment, as I want us to develop obviously talented youngsters and bring them through. Again, Calero has begun the season well with the U21s and I hope he gets a look-in with the first team squad some time soon. Unlike some who "don't care about the league cup", I'm gutted we went out because we can't now try things and blood new players in a competitive environment unless it's in the more important Championship.

If people think we're short on midfield options, Bryson will be back soon but until then we still have Thorne, Hendrick, Baird, Dawkins, Hanson and U21 options in one of Guy, Koblenz, Bunjaku who are surely all champing at the bit.

I'd expect every other team in the league to be envious of our attacking options in: Martin, Bent, Weimann, Ince, Russell with Dawkins another option, Sammon and Thomas out on loan, and the likes of Calero and Bennett also available (Vernam and Zanzala also talented and eager).

We have a big, strong squad that we need to use. As I've said before, anyone else who comes in needs to be head and shoulders above the existing players in their position, or there's no point. We've plenty of bodies as it is.

[cloughandtaylor]

I think PC is was cautious in the Bolton game, new coach, don't want to lose the opening game and all that.....which is expected.

But the overall performance was poor and unfortunately we took that performance in to the Pompey.

PC started the Charlton game probably a bit under pressure [us, media] one draw, one loss and two poor performances and it didn't help Charlton coming for a draw [but that is going to happen with every visiting team].

But we lacked the killer instinct in the final 1/3, Yes, why not Bent on in the 2nd half? I don't know, only Clements will know why.....

We have started to defend so much better than last season, but at the consequence of attacking the opposition....I think if we can sort out that final 1/3, after all we do have Martin, Bent, Ince, Weimann and Russell. There are not many teams with that sort of strike force in the division.

[Inglorius]

 

We have started to defend so much better than last season, but at the consequence of attacking the opposition....I think if we can sort out that final 1/3, after all we do have Martin, Bent, Ince, Weimann and Russell. There are not many teams with that sort of strike force in the division.

I agree with you about Martin, Bent and Ince but Russell must score 1 goal for every 10 clear cut chances he gets and Weimann has been gash since we signed him

[Mostyn6]

I agree with you about Martin, Bent and Ince but Russell must score 1 goal for every 10 clear cut chances he gets and Weimann has been gash since we signed him

please enlighten me about these clear cut chances that Russell converts only ten percent of. We must watch different games. 

[Inglorius]

please enlighten me about these clear cut chances that Russell converts only ten percent of. We must watch different games. 

Maybe yes maybe no 

[Tombo]

Comment about Weimann too... Christ, he's played one game... Or are you referring to the two goals and one assist in preseason that is a 'gash' return for a winger?

[gfs1ram]

Interesting reading this and I totally agree with the OP. Indeed if this thread had not started I had in mind starting my own this pm under the banner 'Cautious Clement". 

Will this be the approach that we will have to get used to, well only time will tell, but McClaren would certainly have gone for the win. I probably expected Dawkins to replace Hanson and Bent to maybe replace Hendrick leaving the back four unchanged. Russell was very poor on Saturday, not sure if he was feeling ill or something but certainly nothing like he has been in pre season. Was surprised that the change was not made at half time.

As for Bent and formations etc, it beggars the question as to why did we sign him??

[B4ev6is]

No he was not he was causing them probleam bit for me chris bird was poor yesterday nearly cost us.

[sage]

No he was not he was causing them probleam bit for me chris bird was poor yesterday nearly cost us.

No need to crow about it.

[Tombo]

No he was not he was causing them probleam bit for me chris bird was poor yesterday nearly cost us.

He made one mistake but his interception was what led to Hendrick's chance that was cleared off the line. One nearly moment either end redeems him for me, and then on the balance of the rest of the game he was pretty good.

[ladyram]

Well, at least we didn't sit back and defend a draw, I thought we pushed pretty well - but arrrggghhh! The final bit! That crucial last shot! Wasn't there..

But, tbf, their defenders had a job to do at times and their keeper was rather good.

 

[tomsdubs]

Such an average Derby fan mentality, one mistake = poor game. Just make sure you glaze over all the good stuff.

[curb]

It's never going to be the same gung-ho approach that McClaren had, he had a 50% plus win rate at Derby, better than any manager in our history. 

What do you think the chances are of that happening with two managers on the trot?

[Bris Vegas]

two bullshit myths in two responses. 1) We are short on numbers. Nonsense. 2) Bent "struggles" in a 4-3-3. Even bigger nonsense!

I wouldn't say Bent 'struggles' in a 4-3-3, but I'd definitely say that Derby as a team struggle with Bent in a 4-3-3. The only way I think it could work is if he comes on for the LW with 15 minuts to go, we focus our attacks down our right with Ince and give Bent the freedom to cut right inside and practically play as a CF next to Martin.

But that's only when we're chasing the game, I'd never contemplate doing that from the start.

 

[B4ev6is]

I also throught he was to slow releasing the ball.