Richard Keogh in PFA TOTY

[mwram1973]

​One thing that I think most people would agree on is; that trying to use footballers intelligence to try and undermine other peoples intelligence is not the cleverest thing to do...

​It has nothing to do with intelligence, it's knowing what football is actually about and not one single person on here or on sausageter who claims to support derby have ever played or know what it's like to play at this level.

Rooney, allegedly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but he still knows that Terry is one of the best cb in the league BECAUSE HE'S PLAYED AGAINST HIM & not just watched a few games on sky or signed him on fm.

[G STAR RAM]

​It has nothing to do with intelligence, it's knowing what football is actually about and not one single person on here or on sausageter who claims to support derby have ever played or know what it's like to play at this level.

Rooney, allegedly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but he still knows that Terry is one of the best cb in the league BECAUSE HE'S PLAYED AGAINST HIM & not just watched a few games on sky or signed him on fm.

​So are you suggesting that no football fan has good knowledge of football because they have not played at this level?

I have said on another thread that I think Keogh has been our best defender in the last few months but to claim he has been one of the best 2 centre backs in the league over the last 45 games is really bizarre.

[mwram1973]

​So are you suggesting that no football fan has good knowledge of football because they have not played at this level?

I have said on another thread that I think Keogh has been our best defender in the last few months but to claim he has been one of the best 2 centre backs in the league over the last 45 games is really bizarre.

​Football fans have opinions, I have one, you have one. It doesn't mean i'm right, it doesn't mean your right. Just because someones watched football for a long time doesn't mean he/she is an expert.

These awards are voted by the fellow professionals who play week in week out against Keogh, you suggested that the professionals don't know what they are talking about?, yet you claim someone who watches football at weekends does!!

Like i said it's an opinion, thats it.

[G STAR RAM]

​Football fans have opinions, I have one, you have one. It doesn't mean i'm right, it doesn't mean your right. Just because someones watched football for a long time doesn't mean he/she is an expert.

These awards are voted by the fellow professionals who play week in week out against Keogh, you suggested that the professionals don't know what they are talking about?, yet you claim someone who watches football at weekends does!!

Like i said it's an opinion, thats it.

​It's voted for players based on 2 games, unless they watch other teams highlights or see their televised games of course.

I'm claiming that people who watch football week in week out over a number of years and from a good vantage point are probably pretty qualified to form a decent opinion on how people are playing.

[cannable]

​It has nothing to do with intelligence, it's knowing what football is actually about and not one single person on here or on sausageter who claims to support derby have ever played or know what it's like to play at this level.

Rooney, allegedly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but he still knows that Terry is one of the best cb in the league BECAUSE HE'S PLAYED AGAINST HIM & not just watched a few games on sky or signed him on fm.

I remember having an argument on here the other year with somebody about Zaha's inclusion in the 2012/13 Championship Team of the Season. Zaha was in the Team of the Season as a midfielder, as voted for by fellow professionals. Jedinak however wasn't included in the Team of the Season but was voted as the Palace fans' player of the year. I think it's fair to say that Jedinak has had the better career in the Premier League, isn't it? Though admittedly Zaha has mitigating circumstances, but it would seem the Palace fans were right about who the better performer/player was. 

Also don't forget that the pros are voting for players they've played against a maximum of twice a season. A lot of us on here have seen him at bare minimum 22 times this season. 

There's a lot more to these votes than just performances as well. How many players do you think chose not to vote Martin, for example, because he wound them up? Because they found him dislikeable? 

On the flip side however, how many of us foresaw Hughes' inclusion in last season's Team of the Year? I'd wager not many. But when you think about it, he must be horrible to play against. A lot of Championship midfielders weren't good enough to get near him last season (and this, for that matter, I found his exclusion surprising), they must have thought he was brilliant, a class above. 

I'd also like to point out that the Championship Player of the Year award's voted for by managers. Managers though Bamford was the best player in the division whereas his fellow players didn't believe that he warranted a place in the team of the year!

I think we just have to accept that in football everybody has an opinion and nobodies is necesarrily right. Fans will notice things players and managers don't. Managers will notice things fans and players don't. Players will notice things that fans and managers won't.

 

 

[mwram1973]

​It's voted for players based on 2 games, unless they watch other teams highlights or see their televised games of course.

I'm claiming that people who watch football week in week out over a number of years and from a good vantage point are probably pretty qualified to form a decent opinion on how people are playing.

​Exactly, so a lot of bloody players must have thought he's played well this season. I can't see a player voting for him on the back of seeing him on the football league show!.

 

[PistoldPete2]

​Seriously?

Seriously I can't remember any since the play off final. If there's been others they must have been in away games, I can't remember any. I can tho think of christie against Watford, and brentford, fozzy  against wolves and milwall, grant against wolves , Huddersfield and milwall, and that's just the last few games. Albentosa has done nothing yet to show he is better than anything we have got. ditto whitbread, although he has looked very decent in his one and half games. Bucko is very limited , but a legend of course.  

[G STAR RAM]

Seriously I can't remember any since the play off final. If there's been others they must have been in away games, I can't remember any. I can tho think of christie against Watford, and brentford, fozzy  against wolves and milwall, grant against wolves , Huddersfield and milwall, and that's just the last few games. Albentosa has done nothing yet to show he is better than anything we have got. ditto whitbread, although he has looked very decent in his one and half games. Bucko is very limited , but a legend of course.  

​I don't remember Keogh making a load of awful howlers like others have but if you look at some of the goals conceded you will see him doing that desperate lunge thing whereas if he had stayed on his feet and tackled properly it is unlikely the goal would have been scored. Wolves first goal is one that springs to mind straight away.

[LittleEatonRam]

Strange that every thread for ages either came back to what Nigel Clough did wrong, or slagging off Keogh, but now almost every thread comes back to saying how **** the fans are. Because, as we all know, we have the worst fans in the world. FACT. Every other club has wonderfully loyal fans who never complain a jot and regularly sell their vital organs on the black market just to fund their clubs. Not ours though. No. Ours are literally the worst people on the planet.

Also, the "you've never been a footballer so you don't know anything about it" is, without doubt, the shittest ******* argument ever. I'm assuming everyone who believes that transparent bullshit won't be voting on May 7th, because they've never been a politician therefore they're in no position to judge them.

But anyway. Yeah, our fans are utter shiteating ********. Can I have some likes for my post now?

[ChaddesdenRam]

People that rate Keogh:

McClaren, fellow Championship players, Martin Oneil, Sean Dyche, 

People that don't:

A significant amount of Derby fans.

That kind of speaks for itself really. 

Huddersfield - conceded 4 none were Keogh's fault. Shotton Christie and Grant

Millwall - Grant and Forsyth's fault.  Then Hendrick mistake before Keogh's block which was actually really good. Its a shame it hit his arm but he did well to stretch and get across. 3rd goal Hendrick's fault. 

If he had defenders around him that could defend we'd be fine. 

[I Am Sheep]

Keogh has played well this season but my main criticism is that I don't think he makes a good captain. Otherwise congratulations and I hope it gives him enough of a confidence boost to get us to Wembley and lift that trophy.

Any Derby "fan" who's abusive about one of our players winning an award really needs to fvck off and support Millwall or another club suited to Neanderthals.

[Dimmu]

So why don't you apply for a managers job then? TBH I would rather trust the p,ayers vote than anyone on this forum. 

​Thanks for the advice. Have to keep that it my mind if I decide to do another U-turn in my working career.

[G STAR RAM]

People that rate Keogh:

McClaren, fellow Championship players, Martin Oneil, Sean Dyche, 

People that don't:

A significant amount of Derby fans.

That kind of speaks for itself really. 

Huddersfield - conceded 4 none were Keogh's fault. Shotton Christie and Grant

Millwall - Grant and Forsyth's fault.  Then Hendrick mistake before Keogh's block which was actually really good. Its a shame it hit his arm but he did well to stretch and get across. 3rd goal Hendrick's fault. 

If he had defenders around him that could defend we'd be fine. 

​Didn't McClaren put him out at right back recently? Weird thing to do if he thinks he is such a good centre back?

 

[IlsonDerby]

​Buxton and Albentosa are better than him. Whitbread too, when he's fit. 

Keogh makes plenty of mistakes. You must have pretty bad amnesia if you can't remember a mistake of his that's cost us a goal.

Note that I never said he's a bad player. I just said that I'd take 2 million for him, as we have better or equal options at the club. He's ok. Obviously he's not helped by the fact he plays in a crap back four that is constantly changing,without a defensive midfielder, but he still deserves some of the blame for our defensive woes this year. You can't blame our utter capitulation defensively on Grant, Christie, Forsyth and Warnock without putting some blame upon Keogh. Plus last year he was in a very, very solid back four, and he wasn't very good, and easily our worst defender.

He also lacks leadership qualities, but that's another debate.

It's a complete joke that he's in the team of the year, anyway. If he's the second-best centre-back in the division, we should be scoring 15 goals a game.

What I will give you is that he always gives his all and shows a lot of passion. The same could be said for Connor Sammon.

 

Wow! 

 

Albentosa - is this based on him having a pretty, foreign name? He has looked shakey and slow in his performances for us to date. Will he adjust and become good? Maybe but he is not better than Keogh. 

 

Buxton? Great last season. Poor this season probably due to injuries. 

[TroyDyer]

Seriously I can't remember any since the play off final. If there's been others they must have been in away games, I can't remember any. I can tho think of christie against Watford, and brentford, fozzy  against wolves and milwall, grant against wolves , Huddersfield and milwall, and that's just the last few games. Albentosa has done nothing yet to show he is better than anything we have got. ditto whitbread, although he has looked very decent in his one and half games. Bucko is very limited , but a legend of course.  

Brighton away. 

Rotherham away. 

Forest at home. 

Just off the top of my head. I am not going to bash the bloke as I have voiced my opinion on him enough, but to say he hasn't cost us a goal since Wembley would be like me saying he hasn't done anything good since Wembley. 

His last ditch challenges are great at times and get the crowd fired up. But at the same time most of them are required because he had been caught out of position/not reading the game/totally mugged (Bamford at home).

I think Raul will come good given time. SM said in the Q&A that be will be a great player. Personally I would have given him games. Hopefully his suring up of defence Saturday has earnt him a place for reading. 

Whitbread has liked solid when I have seen him. No nonsense defender which is exactly what we need. Apparently he is made of lettuce though. 

As for bucko, best CB at the club by a country mile. Does the dirty stuff, rarely gets beat in the air, can pass the ball, is a natural leader, and chips in with a goal. His absence has confirmed what many believed. He is vital to our defence. 

This is largely irrelevant though if rumours are true about 5 new defenders on the radar for the summer. 

If we made the PL could you imagine our goals against tally? Ugly. 

 

[TheDeadlySaul]

​Didn't McClaren put him out at right back recently? Weird thing to do if he thinks he is such a good centre back?

 

​McClaren put him at right back because we had no other options apart from Christie there as Shotton had concussion, nothing to do with McClaren not rating him.

[TroyDyer]

​McClaren put him at right back because we had no other options apart from Christie there as Shotton had concussion, nothing to do with McClaren not rating him.

I thought it might have been a stroke of genius that though. All the positives of Keogh's game, and not the negatives. 

 

*apart from still backing off and showing Pritchard inside on to his stronger right foot. 

[Ashz09]

When I read it I literally laughed. Couldn't believe it didn't know which was more embarrassing equalizing against Brentford or this decision.

 

Like many have said it's the players count thoe. Maybe they felt sorry for him?

[Curtains]

When I read it I literally laughed. Couldn't believe it didn't know which was more embarrassing equalizing against Brentford or this decision.

 

Like many have said it's the players count thoe. Maybe they felt sorry for him?

Forest fan you must be how's this helping with these comments on the eve of the playoffs 

[G STAR RAM]

​McClaren put him at right back because we had no other options apart from Christie there as Shotton had concussion, nothing to do with McClaren not rating him.

​So we had no other options to play right back other than a right back?

Do we not have a right back for the u21s then?

He moved Keogh to right back because he was still trying to shoehorn Albentosa in at centre back at that point.