Can you pin point it?

[valleyram]

​

​are you serious? Do you think that McClaren and co have suddenly changed what they do and become poor coaches after being awesome coaches only a few months ago.

If this was another team other than the one you support, you'd find it easy to pinpoint what's gone wrong. Try listening to the impartial and unbiased pundits and get your head out of the sand. Yes we have a couple of duffers in defence and always have. But the reality is the combination of negativity and playing with duffers has effected the players that remain and confidence is gone. Nothing more, nothing less. 

We are still capable of clean sheets, We are still capable of beating anyone in this league. Those affected players just need a boost.

I've always thought he was a poor coach , nothing he's done at the ipro has made me change my mind , not to get that squad into the premiership would be a massive failure , if you think anything else your kidding yourself on 

[Ambitious]

​

​are you serious? Do you think that McClaren and co have suddenly changed what they do and become poor coaches after being awesome coaches only a few months ago.

If this was another team other than the one you support, you'd find it easy to pinpoint what's gone wrong. Try listening to the impartial and unbiased pundits and get your head out of the sand. Yes we have a couple of duffers in defence and always have. But the reality is the combination of negativity and playing with duffers has effected the players that remain and confidence is gone. Nothing more, nothing less. 

We are still capable of clean sheets, We are still capable of beating anyone in this league. Those affected players just need a boost.

No. I didn't say that he changed it and made it worse. I meant that when it started to go off the rails, he failed to get it back in order. You can't argue against that. 

He's failed to improve Forsyth's distribution, he's been unable to stop Christie's confidence from capitulating and he's been unable to improve the backline over the past 12 months despite several signings. 

He has done lots and lots right and when we were getting clean sheet after clean sheet then he was getting it right. He has just struggled to stop the rot since goals started leaking in. 

He has proven this season unable to change his conditions to suit thr scenario. It's effected us. However, like I said, he's done 100 things more right than he's done wrong. 

[eddie]

​I am pretty sure I read a Grisham book called this, as Eddie says, about a bloke dying of cancer who had previously been a pitcher, and had purposely hit a rookie hitter on the head and put him in a coma with a stray pitch. Decent book I suppose.

​Yes, that's the one. Absolutely brilliant book, which I have only recently read. One of the books the missus bought a few months ago. A big departure from his usual legal stuff (e.g. Pelican Brief)

[AmericanRam]

​Yes, that's the one. Absolutely brilliant book, which I have only recently read. One of the books the missus bought a few months ago.

Yes fantastic book.Ever read anything else by Grisham mate? Great author.

[ramblur]

There is nothing wrong with our fitness. We outplayed Watford and lost. We just do silly mistakes. 

​How many men did Watford have for half that game ? I think we drew 2-2. From what I remember ,we started brightly before it fizzled out after about a quarter of an hour and Watford then got on top (very similar to the Brentford game).Without the penalty and sending off,I think we might have been given a bit of a hiding.

[Mostyn6]

I've always thought he was a poor coach , nothing he's done at the ipro has made me change my mind , not to get that squad into the premiership would be a massive failure , if you think anything else your kidding yourself on 

​not to get that squad? You mean the squad that has approximately 15 Premier League appearances, aside of Eustace across the whole squad before Christmas.

The ONLY reason you are so deluded as to think we've got a squad that is good enough to be promoted is because of the excellent coaching to over-achieve last season. Aside of our recent loan signings, why on earth should our squad do better than the Norwich, Fulham, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Watford, even Forest?

Get a grip man, one half of a magical honeymoon period season, and you think we should be world beaters.

 

[Mostyn6]

No. I didn't say that he changed it and made it worse. I meant that when it started to go off the rails, he failed to get it back in order. You can't argue against that. 

He's failed to improve Forsyth's distribution, he's been unable to stop Christie's confidence from capitulating and he's been unable to improve the backline over the past 12 months despite several signings. 

He has done lots and lots right and when we were getting clean sheet after clean sheet then he was getting it right. He has just struggled to stop the rot since goals started leaking in. 

He has proven this season unable to change his conditions to suit thr scenario. It's effected us. However, like I said, he's done 100 things more right than he's done wrong. 

​a couple of old sayings for you to bear in mind

a, You can put a golden saddle on a donkey.... BUT, it's still a donkey.

b, You cannot polish a turd.

They both mean the same thing. Certain players can only be so good.

[eddie]

Couldn't agree more and to come out with if we didn't have the loan players we wouldn't be in the play offs smacks of disrespect to the other players 

​Only the ***** ones.

[eddie]

​a couple of old sayings for you to bear in mind

a, You can put a golden saddle on a donkey.... BUT, it's still a donkey.

b, You cannot polish a turd.

They both mean the same thing. Certain players can only be so good.

​Mythbusters did it

 

[Ambitious]

​a couple of old sayings for you to bear in mind

a, You can put a golden saddle on a donkey.... BUT, it's still a donkey.

b, You cannot polish a turd.

They both mean the same thing. Certain players can only be so good.

​I could agree BUT Christie was outstanding for the first three months of the season and Forsyth was outstanding for most of last season - including his distribution. 

He needs to get Christie and Forsyth back to what they were. With players like Shotton and Albentosa it's harder to say, but both came from quite good backgrounds so you would have hope for them as well. 

We need the balance that got the clean sheets in the first place, maybe it's harder without the players, but our defence should still be good enough to keep the ball out of the net. 

Warnock, Shotton, Keogh and Christie - that's a backline that should be able to keep the ball out of the net, nevermind not concede four goals. 

[Mostyn6]

​I could agree BUT Christie was outstanding for the first three months of the season and Forsyth was outstanding for most of last season - including his distribution. 

He needs to get Christie and Forsyth back to what they were. With players like Shotton and Albentosa it's harder to say, but both came from quite good backgrounds so you would have hope for them as well. 

We need the balance that got the clean sheets in the first place, maybe it's harder without the players, but our defence should still be good enough to keep the ball out of the net. 

Warnock, Shotton, Keogh and Christie - that's a backline that should be able to keep the ball out of the net, nevermind not concede four goals. 

​a, Christie - no he wasn't. He's always been a suspect defender. His excellence was in his attacking play, never defensive

b, Forsyth - nonsense, his distribution has been shocking from day one until now. In fact you were hiding behind stats saying he was the best LB in the division when I was critical of his defending.

[Alph]

Think Forsyth has improved massively under Mac. He was crap. Now he's a beast defender out of form. 

He wasn't a superb marauding LB and brilliant attacker for the second half of last season? 

He's always had a tendency to hoof. When in bad form and not comfortable that's only going to get worse. 

Our defence isn't that bad. Plenty of clean sheets. They're struggling now with the ever changing personnel. You seen some of the goals Watford concede?!?

Maybe we put them under pressure by chilling out and putting our feet up too often. Losing the control of the game which we do even in possession when it's all in our 3rd (that's where the opposition want the ball)

Individually compare them to other defenders

Statistically compare them to other defenders.

Not that bad. Admittedly not great and two of them have completely lost the plot. But in the grand scheme they're ok.

Until we put them under pressure they don't need to be under. We sit back as soon as we lead a game. We talk about "clean sheets" as if goal difference will decide our position. And we constantly change them. 

Stop fixing stuff that ain't broke. That for me with injuries is why we're not in the top 2. 

[Chris Mills]

I just had a quick look at the table from last season and at this point with 2 games to go we have conceeded 1 more than we had at this point last season.

We have conceeded 2 less than we had by the end meaning if we conceed less than 2 goals over the next 2 games we have infact had a better/the same defence this season as last so are our defensive problems really as bad as you all think?

[Dale The Ram]

​Mythbusters did it

 

​You beat me to it EDDIE!!!

[Curtains]

​a, Christie - no he wasn't. He's always been a suspect defender. His excellence was in his attacking play, never defensive

b, Forsyth - nonsense, his distribution has been shocking from day one until now. In fact you were hiding behind stats saying he was the best LB in the division when I was critical of his defending.

Correct 

[Dale The Ram]

Personally I think the defence is shaky atm, start of the season we had a great back line.

Grant (Great Goalkeeper, kicking has improved somewhat, has had a few mistakes, some due to him not gambling for balls)

Christie (young irish lad who ive never seen play before but seemed incredible going forward)

Keogh (Captain, has moments of brilliance but the odd mistake in him, which is only natural)

Buxton (Legend, really has improved since we got him, bit of a thug but passing and dribbling is second to none)

Forsyth (Steady, good all round player, for saying he used to be a midfielder he looks like hes played left back since he popped out)

The lack of a CDM has hurt us massively, even Mascarell is missed for his defensive duties. Thorne was/is one of the most pivotal players in the team, watching his 2 'return' games, even without fitness, was a credit to the team.

Wisdom may have been missed this season but no one would've been that bothered if Christie never dropped in form.

Martin also took a lot of pressure off the midfield due to holding up the ball and laying it off to the next man.

Overall I think its down to our system missing the key men to carry it out. I don't really understand why McClaren hasn't tinkered with the team much, I wanted to see us with 2 holding mids to see if it worked and now I don't understand why Hanson isn't playing the holding role when he showed his worth when called upon.

Anyway, weve got a real opportunity here, if we don't go up its on to the next season as always.

The manager/players may change but the club remains in the veins.

COYR

[VulcanRam]

​I know from my own sporting days that the first casualties of a loss of confidence are a lack of movement and a lack of follow through (in racquet sports and golf etc),or,in the case of team games like football,tentativeness (and,by heavens, it's difficult to shake off). Therefore,a lack of confidence can make you seem tired (or even not trying).

However,if you go back to the Fulham game you could hardly say we were lacking in confidence,yet we put in a very low energy,lack lustre performance.As we are now in an unbeaten run,lack of confidence is hardly an issue now,so it'll be interesting to see what our energy levels are like in our remaining games.

As I've said before,I was a bit alarmed in the first half of the season,when it seemed we were thankful for upcoming international breaks, because of tiredness.We couldn't seem to cope with three games in a week at a stage of the season when we should have been relatively fresh

​I'm not sure that's the case - I'm suffering from a loss of confidence during matches but seem to be following through rather a lot. 

[cloughandtaylor]

The defence was a shambles when Mac took over remember Ipswich at home last season?

It has not really changed since, ok brought in Christie, who looked ok ish when he started with us, but now looks shell shocked, abit out of his depth. And we got bloke from Stoke, I thought he actually played for 'The Swan' at the top of our street.......

Bucko is without doubt a good battler, but again a bit too slow at this level, Keogh sometimes looks like he could become the new Mark Wright, but then goes into Keystone cop mode and makes silly mistakes.....

Fozzy is playing at his level.

The best we have/had was Wisdom and his again was a loanee......

We do have some quality Hughes, GT,CM, Eustace, but when those are injured we have little in quality to replace them, its a shame we did not bring somebody in for Eustace?

Once the quality players got injured we have struggled, I just thank god we actually have had Bent and Ince because without that pair we would be deffo mid table.

Defence does need changing in the summer, but we also need more quality up front and in DM position -the last two months prove this.

As for Mac, no he will be here in August and lets hope preparing for the new season in the prem......If we get the players back we can out score those other teams in the play off position, it's as long as we get those players back, because at the back we do look a libility.

[ramsbottom]

Thing is though would you not class Keogh as an experienced head? arguably more experienced than Bucko? I personally don't think he's captain material one bit. He's not a natural leader and I think he needs to be able not to worry about being captain, but doing his bloody job, and more importantly, the basics of defending! as do the the rest of the back four!

​Hits the nail on the head for me.  And before anybody says it, I'm not a Keogh basher, I think he's a decent CB on his day but I just think his head goes when the pressures on.  He certainly isn't captain material, how many times this season, when we've conceded, has he turned to the player to judges to be responsible and just screams in their faces while flapping his arms out like a gibbon dancing to the Prodigy???

I said it last season and I'll say it this season Buxton is the better defender out of the two and it's certainly not a coincedence we've struggled defensively whilst he's been out and earlier in the season where he wasn't at the top of his game due to the niggles he kept getting.

[ramblur]

​I'm not sure that's the case - I'm suffering from a loss of confidence during matches but seem to be following through rather a lot. 

​Don't worry,RamNut 'll be cheering you on from the touchline.Make sure it's high though.