Can you pin point it?

[Van der MoodHoover]

​I think he's had his injury 'rests' this season as well.It's the energy levels in both seasons,when actually playing,that I'm comparing.

​Ah - well fair play. Difficult to tell whether its conditioning/fitness or different orders (as per other threads where it has been put that we are less gung ho).

Last season it was Jeffs goals against Forest and Brighton in the play off that epitomised the charge forward into space and scoring. This season I do not recall similar play, but the reason I do not know.

[Tombo]

​I distinctly remember it being said that we did more ball work a lot earlier than in previous years,which obviously means that the slog up hills etc must have been curtailed.The players said it had been different and enjoyable pre season. Now if I were a player I'd much rather be kicking a ball around than slogging up hills,but it wouldn't mean it was doing me good ,long term.

A lack of proper conditioning would make you more likely to pick up injuries,rather than the position you put forward.

When you do a hard slog pre season ,you've put good stamina levels into the tank,and then have plenty of time to recover before the season starts.During the season you can then concentrate on the ball work in training,in the knowledge that good stamina levels have already been put in place. 

 

​Yes but it was also said that they were deliberately tiring the players out in preseason and making them play through the fatigue, to make sure they were able to see games out at the end of matches. How well did that work....?

We had loads of strain injuries in preseason, and of course George Thorne's ACL. The high intensity training was what the Austria trip was all about.

And you can't listen to the players, of course they're saying it's been enjoyable. They're hardly likely to go "I bloody hate this, it's absolutely killing me". But if we're doing that, Jake Buxton did do an interview when he bemoaned the triple session training they had every day in preseason, and that was before they got to Austria.

[May Contain Nuts]

 

Last season it was Jeffs goals against Forest and Brighton in the play off that epitomised the charge forward into space and scoring. This season I do not recall similar play, but the reason I do not know.

​One of the main things McClaren did when he came in was to install Eustace and latterly Thorne in the DM role - this was key to allowing players like Hendrick, Hughes and Bryson to get forward. That said, Hendrick actually has more goals this season than in any other, I'm not quite sure how that's happened!

We've had our two specialised DM players unavailable pretty much all season, Mascarell came in and did a job he wasn't really suited to, but did it a damn sight better than Hendrick has ever shown a capability of doing - still, that's 3 players better than what we've currently got in a vital position.

It was also vital to our defence.

Without this system working we're basically back to playing like we did under Nigel Clough

I don't mean this in an atagnoistic "told you so" manner, but I started to irritate myself with how many times I was arguing the importance of controlling possession and not letting the opposition put pressure on our defence,I knew we'd struggle without a DM but even I didn't expect the complete capitulation of certain players' basic defending. Conversely it's only Keogh who's actually coming out with much credit now that the other players have slipped so badly.

 

[Yani P]

I think our defence has generally been sub-standard for a lot longer then the last month or two. We were keeping clean sheets yet can you honestly say we ever looked rock solid at the back? I think it was masked by the fact we were usually attacking and the fact we had good quality protection in front.

I was more concerned my SM's comments on the BBC - it sounded almost resigned to the fact that we have a shocking defence - we can only hope that they are working around the clock on getting it right !!

"We need one more win and that's our only focus - but the way we are defending at the moment, anyone could beat us. We are not in a good condition but we are scrapping.

 

[ramblur]

​Yes but it was also said that they were deliberately tiring the players out in preseason and making them play through the fatigue, to make sure they were able to see games out at the end of matches. How well did that work....?

We had loads of strain injuries in preseason, and of course George Thorne's ACL. The high intensity training was what the Austria trip was all about.

And you can't listen to the players, of course they're saying it's been enjoyable. They're hardly likely to go "I bloody hate this, it's absolutely killing me". But if we're doing that, Jake Buxton did do an interview when he bemoaned the triple session training they had every day in preseason, and that was before they got to Austria.

​"Making them play through the fatigue"  has nothing to do with uphill slogs etc. I don't recall the players saying it was enjoyable in previous years,more saying that it was damn tough.Jake may just have been bemoaning the fact that there were 3 sessions -we don't know what was going off in those sessions.

As I understand it,the hard slog approach is there to build up stamina levels -it's not going to make you knackered later on in the season,quite the reverse.However,it should be followed by an easing off,to recover.I seem to remember Nigel used to have them doing enjoyable activities (building team spirit) like cricket,water sports etc.

Now I didn't know much of what you've said,but it seems to me that it wouldn't be a great idea to put the tiger in the tank,and then undermine it by pushing too hard in the remainder of pre season

[Yani P]

Maybe the water sports was a step too far 

[ramblur]

​Ah - well fair play. Difficult to tell whether its conditioning/fitness or different orders (as per other threads where it has been put that we are less gung ho).

Last season it was Jeffs goals against Forest and Brighton in the play off that epitomised the charge forward into space and scoring. This season I do not recall similar play, but the reason I do not know.

​I know from my own sporting days that the first casualties of a loss of confidence are a lack of movement and a lack of follow through (in racquet sports and golf etc),or,in the case of team games like football,tentativeness (and,by heavens, it's difficult to shake off). Therefore,a lack of confidence can make you seem tired (or even not trying).

However,if you go back to the Fulham game you could hardly say we were lacking in confidence,yet we put in a very low energy,lack lustre performance.As we are now in an unbeaten run,lack of confidence is hardly an issue now,so it'll be interesting to see what our energy levels are like in our remaining games.

As I've said before,I was a bit alarmed in the first half of the season,when it seemed we were thankful for upcoming international breaks, because of tiredness.We couldn't seem to cope with three games in a week at a stage of the season when we should have been relatively fresh

[ramblur]

Maybe the water sports was a step too far 

​I think it was when he had them in a huddle,bawling their eyes out because the hill slogs were over

[ramblur]

So there you have it - one poster suggesting that the training was rubbish because the players might have been undercooked, and one poster suggesting that the training was rubbish because the players might have been overcooked.

That's perfectly acceptable, and is in keeping with Mostyn's "Glass half full or glass half empty?" thread which scored 46 each after 92 votes.

Usually, in such circumstances, the middle ground is the most likely because it requires fewer assumptions (for those who want to know more, look up "Occam's Razor"). Just retain the common factors and eliminate the ones which only appear in one alternative, especially when the other alternative is diametrically opposite.

In other words, the training was rubbish because the players were neither undercooked nor overcooked.

Sorted.

​I like heavily watered down 'slops' obtained from 'Calico Joe's' Tavern.That's fecked your Belgian beer down to mid table

[eddie]

​I like heavily watered down 'slops' obtained from 'Calico Joe's' Tavern.That's fecked your Belgian beer down to mid table

​Calico Joe?

What does John Grisham know about beer?

[ramblur]

​Calico Joe?

What does John Grisham know about beer?

​About as much as Tombo knows about pre season training (only joking,Tombo). As you probably guessed,my Calico Joe was the fairground rifle range operator,with the bent rifles, featuring in one of the comics I read as a kid.

[eddie]

​About as much as Tombo knows about pre season training (only joking,Tombo). As you probably guessed,my Calico Joe was the fairground rifle range operator,with the bent rifles, featuring in one of the comics I read as a kid.

​I seem to remember a cat called Calico Joe from somewhere.

[Mostyn6]

​About as much as Tombo knows about pre season training (only joking,Tombo). As you probably guessed,my Calico Joe was the fairground rifle range operator,with the bent rifles, featuring in one of the comics I read as a kid.

​I am pretty sure I read a Grisham book called this, as Eddie says, about a bloke dying of cancer who had previously been a pitcher, and had purposely hit a rookie hitter on the head and put him in a coma with a stray pitch. Decent book I suppose.

[PistoldPete2]

I have never seen so many defensive errors even in our nightmare 2007 -08 season...we are very lucky to have so many good forwards because our defenders are so blundering. Nobody  is exempt... Except whitbread and that's maybe cos he's hardly played.

[Ambitious]

Lack of leadership and poor coaching. 

The defence looks unorganised and McClaren looks incapable of getting the best of his players. 

It's no great secret. When a team is shipping goals then the manager/coaches have to come under the microscope. 

[Curtains]

Lack of leadership and poor coaching. 

The defence looks unorganised and McClaren looks incapable of getting the best of his players. 

It's no great secret. When a team is shipping goals then the manager/coaches have to come under the microscope. 

Your criticism is over the top now. 

Maybe you would rather be a Brentford or Wolves or Forest fan then

[ramblur]

​I seem to remember a cat called Calico Joe from somewhere.

​Class act.His ears stuck out from slits cut in his hat.Dandy or Beano at a guess.Made George Cole look like a pussy cat .....or should that be the other way round.

[valleyram]

Lack of leadership and poor coaching. 

The defence looks unorganised and McClaren looks incapable of getting the best of his players. 

It's no great secret. When a team is shipping goals then the manager/coaches have to come under the microscope. 

Couldn't agree more and to come out with if we didn't have the loan players we wouldn't be in the play offs smacks of disrespect to the other players 

[Mostyn6]

Lack of leadership and poor coaching. 

The defence looks unorganised and McClaren looks incapable of getting the best of his players. 

It's no great secret. When a team is shipping goals then the manager/coaches have to come under the microscope. 

​

Couldn't agree more and to come out with if we didn't have the loan players we wouldn't be in the play offs smacks of disrespect to the other players 

​are you serious? Do you think that McClaren and co have suddenly changed what they do and become poor coaches after being awesome coaches only a few months ago.

If this was another team other than the one you support, you'd find it easy to pinpoint what's gone wrong. Try listening to the impartial and unbiased pundits and get your head out of the sand. Yes we have a couple of duffers in defence and always have. But the reality is the combination of negativity and playing with duffers has effected the players that remain and confidence is gone. Nothing more, nothing less. 

We are still capable of clean sheets, We are still capable of beating anyone in this league. Those affected players just need a boost.

[Gypsy Ram]

There is nothing wrong with our fitness. We outplayed Watford and lost. We just do silly mistakes.