Day Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 In the news a lot again recently, John Barnes the latest today on BBC saying that Black managers struggle to find a new job after being sackedhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32112666In the middle of the article is a table of his less than glamorous stats as a club manager, although undefeated as Jamaica manager which he left after just 11 games to take over at Tranmere where he was shocking, the players nicknamed Barnes and McAteer Dumb and Dumber!I'm not going to sit here and say there is no racism in football and skin colour stops managers getting jobs, I honestly don't know what goes through a chairmans head when appointing. When we keep seeing the stats of how many Black and ethnic minority managers are in jobs, I'd like to also see the stats of how many have taken the qualifications to manage, why is that never disclosed in these articles? What is the percentage that have sat the qualifications and can't find work, compare White, Black and ethnic minorities. Even if it's a low figure you could argue that Black ethnic minority players don't sit the qualifications as they would never be employed but for me that's a weak argument, nobody would achieve anything in life if they didn't take chances.I'd also like to see job application success rate stats for each league, managers with no previous experience and managers that have managed before. How many applications are made in the lower leagues, are we seeing unrealistic expectations when it comes to employment.I don't need the BBC to do a head count of Black and ethnic minority managers currently employed, I'm capable of doing that myself and it proves nothing. 6 managers could be in employment from a total of 30 that are qualified and actively seeking jobs.Let's see more in depth stats! really prove that racism does exist in football when appointing managers. I'm still on the fence until I see these regardless of how many head counts and Sol Campbell, John Barnes articles they pump out.The Rooney rule that they keep bringing up, what happened to being employed because you are the best candidate for the job? I would be going into interviews thinking I'm only here to help this club pass FA rules, if there is a problem in football this isn't the way to tackle the problem.If a club like Forest that change the manager twice a season don't employ a black manager in the next 10 seasons (20 managers) will they have the FA asking questions?I hate seeing ethnic status on job application forms, why is it on there, why should it matter? can't you look at my application and CV, see if I'm someone that may fit the job requirement, you can see what colour I am at the interview if it really makes a difference.I read the other day that the BBC now have a rule that one female comedian should be on comedy panel shows, come on now this is madness! I want to see the best comedians for the show, if one, two, three or all the panel are women that's great, don't stick a woman at the end of the panel to fill the quota, what kind of message does that give out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Wonder how many black managers there are in other sport's percentage wise to football , say in rugby , union ,or league , or hockey , or any sport's with a league system ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I'd question Barnes' record if I was looking at his application. But what jobs is he applying for? If he's going for the lower end Prem jobs, its hardly a surprise! Why not follow JFH's example - go to a lower league club and build something of a reputation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Bad taste from Barnes pulling the race card. Completely overlooks the fact he is a sausage manager. Sort of ties in with what Farage has said recently about relaxing the laws on this sort of thing. He was shot down and had his words twisted but I agree, the employer should be allowed to employ the best candidates for the job regardless of race, religion etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 you know what people are overlooking, how many rich black people have invested their hard earned cash in the sport?I hate racism, in fact I hate discrimination full stop. But there are more black managers than there are female managers, there are more black managers than there are disabled managers, there are more black managers than there are gay managers.At the end of the day, if you OWN a business, the decisions you take are your OWN risks. As you are the person risking everything, then you should be entitled to employ whoever you want.If the FA tries to force people to employ people based on skin colour over ability, then will the FA compensate any club relegated with that manager in charge? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 This comes up every few months?Who are the racist chairmanSpecifically which clubs turned down a black guy who was ticked all the boxes of a white guy? In that specific case, how many white managers were turned down?Name and shame.can't just keep saying it's because I'm black blah blah and having nothing else.We've ticked Brighton, Newcastle, Norwich, Blackburn, Blackpool, Brighton, Charlton, Huddersfield off the racist list. So who's racist?Sam Rush? Bet John Barnes won't dare drop a name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 There's something to be said for the fact that once a black manager does poorly, he struggles to get a job, while some absolute clowns keep getting jobs in football. All that point does it stress how important it is to appoint based on talent and merit. Every time a Premier League job comes up, it seems 3 entirely different managers get linked - say Schteve, Sherwood and Redknapp. All three in this example are up for the same job vancancy, biut all three of the them would be entirely different in their approach to the point where it's three completely different roles. In what other walk of life would that happen? You open up the job for a maths teacher and a janitor, a dinner lady and an accountant apply for it?This has nothing to do with the colour of managers' skin, and everything to do with chairmen like Fawaz who clearly hire and fire people on nothing more than a whim. How on earth did Glen Whelan employ Martinez, then Coyle, then Rosler, then Mackay? What doe s he want from a manager? There are 10 year old kids more decisive than that.At least if our manager goes, our board will appoint someone who fits the role, rather than fitting the role to whoever they appoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 How can you get Dave Whelan's name so wrong? have some respect, he broke his leg once you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 How can you get Dave Whelan's name so wrong? have some respect, he broke his leg once you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 There's something to be said for the fact that once a black manager does poorly, he struggles to get a job, while some absolute clowns keep getting jobs in football. All that point does it stress how important it is to appoint based on talent and merit. Every time a Premier League job comes up, it seems 3 entirely different managers get linked - say Schteve, Sherwood and Redknapp. All three in this example are up for the same job vancancy, biut all three of the them would be entirely different in their approach to the point where it's three completely different roles. In what other walk of life would that happen? You open up the job for a maths teacher and a janitor, a dinner lady and an accountant apply for it?This has nothing to do with the colour of managers' skin, and everything to do with chairmen like Fawaz who clearly hire and fire people on nothing more than a whim. How on earth did Glen Whelan employ Martinez, then Coyle, then Rosler, then Mackay? What doe s he want from a manager? There are 10 year old kids more decisive than that.At least if our manager goes, our board will appoint someone who fits the role, rather than fitting the role to whoever they appoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Look at Paul Ince, did crap at nearly every job he had, but still got hired by Notts County and Blackpool, then you got Chris Hughton, never did bad at any job and obviously gets hired. There is no conspiracy against black managers, John Barnes never got hired because he did crap at Celtic, Jamaica and Tranmere, just like I'm sure managers such as Paul Jewell and Stuart Pearce will struggle to get a job. because of there past failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 One thing that really annoys me is how people use the figures of how many black players play in the PL and FL as an example of why there is loads of racism in football preventing black players from becoming managers. Err very poor argument. What is the average of a manager. Then cross reference that with another era. One from the past. When these managers would have been players. Wasn't so many black players back then was there.Another thing people can not deny. If you are black you are almost certainly to come from a very poor background. Leave school with few qualifications. If you are also good at football then that is pretty much the final nail in your educational coffin. Clubs don't appoint idiots...some do. Their education/lack of it and priority for it, is what is ultimately their downfall as a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 One thing that really annoys me is how people use the figures of how many black players play in the PL and FL as an example of why there is loads of racism in football preventing black players from becoming managers. Err very poor argument. What is the average of a manager. Then cross reference that with another era. One from the past. When these managers would have been players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I think there are more worthwhile things to get really annoyed about than arguments that others put forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 whilst it's the case, this has nothing at all to do with the decisions makers at clubs! Those three names are put forward by the bookmakers and nobody else. Fact is that Sherwood only got one of the 10 jobs, McClaren hasn't even been interviewed for the jobs he's been linked with, and I doubt Redknapp has either. You can say that for the other names too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Or you know. We could just do what just did. Effectively try to shut down genuine debate and points. Stick to the key message in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Just to do the maths 3.3% of the population of England & Wales are black Of the 92 football clubs in the football league, 5 are black 5.4% of managers are therefore black But more importantly than all of that I didnt even realise it was possible to lose 8 games as Celtic manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Or you know. We could just do what just did. Effectively try to shut down genuine debate and points. Stick to the key message in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Wonder how many black managers there are in other sport's percentage wise to football , say in rugby , union ,or league , or hockey , or any sport's with a league system ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Just to do the maths 3.3% of the population of England & Wales are black Of the 92 football clubs in the football league, 5 are black 5.4% of managers are therefore black But more importantly than all of that I didnt even realise it was possible to lose 8 games as Celtic manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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