Ambitious Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 But if we do get promoted will we be able to keep Will Hughes and the likes of Bamford and Wisdom etc. Its like you say huge investment would be required and im not sure that would be forthcoming . Exactly, But, the point is if you've got aspirations of being a Premier League side, you've got to spend Premier League money. I would personally hope for a £50m investment through the spine of the team and then wide players to enhance that investment - it would be a hard job, but at least we haven't tripped ourselves up by offering stupid contracts, to below standard players. Forest have built their team on Premier League failures for instance, what can they expect to gain from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Exactly, But, the point is if you've got aspirations of being a Premier League side, you've got to spend Premier League money. I would personally hope for a £50m investment through the spine of the team and then wide players to enhance that investment - it would be a hard job, but at least we haven't tripped ourselves up by offering stupid contracts, to below standard players. Forest have built their team on Premier League failures for instance, what can they expect to gain from it?Like I say in principle it would be great to go up but McClaren would need the owners full backing which also applies to all managers and then it's how he utilizes the money he's given. He may cash in on Will Hughes and bring in different players etc etc It's all superstition but he should maybe have been backed more already IMO which is what is happening down the road. Loans are good up to a point to get us promoted but that in itself brings problems at a later date. PS Still enjoying the ride to a certain extent though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I want to go up and the red dogs end up in the third tier [again] . I want to be established in the Prem like we were under Jim. I want us to extend the gorund to make it around 40k ish capacityand fill it for the likes of Manu etc. I want to see Derby in Europe again before I croak it. I know, I wants don't get. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 NO team will EVER do a Derby (07/08) again in my lifetime, not even Derby! We just rolled over and were mentally incapable at that time, we had no time to put an infrastructure in place after Gadsby's consortium rescued the club after the 3 amigos. The next time will be different and there's no reason to suggest we'd struggle more than any promoted team as ALL promoted teams must invest in solid defence and pace in attack to survive at that level, it doesn't matter who is in the squad now. If they were Premier League standard, they'd be playing there already in most cases, so we have to invest upon promotion??? Doesn't everybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Exactly, But, the point is if you've got aspirations of being a Premier League side, you've got to spend Premier League money. I would personally hope for a £50m investment through the spine of the team and then wide players to enhance that investment - it would be a hard job, but at least we haven't tripped ourselves up by offering stupid contracts, to below standard players. Forest have built their team on Premier League failures for instance, what can they expect to gain from it? That's a bit of a jump from the £10/12m you were asking for earlier,Ambitious.If they're already up to their necks to the tune of c£60m (by now),then I can't see the £50m you expect,nor would I see it as being something fair to expect-i doubt that,having rescued a fairly grim situation,they'd jeopardise it with massive investment.I'd expect (and be relatively happy) to see the £10/12m you suggest,but perhaps a little more.These kind of figures should be well contained by the cash surplus on operations a Prem season might now throw up (even 07/08 would have supported this).Throw in a couple of quality season long loans and we might have a chance,because I believe we now have a few players far better suited to the Prem than their predecessors. I think some wrongly see me as something of a perennial board basher-not so,it's the impressions I believe to have been created that I rail against.My only real criticisms would be the Jan 08 spending and facilitating the notion that you could throw virtually a whole new team together and expect promotion.I also think that there have been times in the last few years when a little more might have been spent to further encouraging situations (11/12 springs to mind). As far as the thread title goes,I think it would be madness not to want promotion this year.We might not get the chance again,as next year would inevitably mean a rebuild,and anything could happen after that.Get aboard the gravy train,and don't spill the gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewetube Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I want promotion, I want it now! Next year is a long way away and anything can happen between now and then. Take your opportunities as and when they arise; they do not come around too often. Sitting around waiting for something to happen is a dangerous game. Grab the bull by the b0ll0cks and make something happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 That's a bit of a jump from the £10/12m you were asking for earlier,Ambitious.If they're already up to their necks to the tune of c£60m (by now),then I can't see the £50m you expect,nor would I see it as being something fair to expect-i doubt that,having rescued a fairly grim situation,they'd jeopardise it with massive investment.I'd expect (and be relatively happy) to see the £10/12m you suggest,but perhaps a little more.These kind of figures should be well contained by the cash surplus on operations a Prem season might now throw up (even 07/08 would have supported this).Throw in a couple of quality season long loans and we might have a chance,because I believe we now have a few players far better suited to the Prem than their predecessors. I think some wrongly see me as something of a perennial board basher-not so,it's the impressions I believe to have been created that I rail against.My only real criticisms would be the Jan 08 spending and facilitating the notion that you could throw virtually a whole new team together and expect promotion.I also think that there have been times in the last few years when a little more might have been spent to further encouraging situations (11/12 springs to mind). As far as the thread title goes,I think it would be madness not to want promotion this year.We might not get the chance again,as next year would inevitably mean a rebuild,and anything could happen after that.Get aboard the gravy train,and don't spill the gravy. you'd argue though that it will go one of two ways... the 'owners' pocket the cash (therefore recouping their investment), and bail out.... OR .... they invest the cash (earned from promotion) in trying to prolong the Premier league cash-cow. I don't think doing neither, which I think is what you're suggesting might happen, will actually happen as it will tie the owners to the club for longer, and mean a longer wait for a return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's a fair point the original poster makes, and he's in danger of taking a common sense approach to this, but you've only got to look at Watford to see that being up there one season doesn't mean you will again next. The prospect of being promoted is daunting - I don't think I could bear queuing even longer at the bar pre-match and then to get off Pride Park afterwards - but as Ewetube says, if the chance comes you've gotta take it, cos who knows what happens next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I want us promoted and to be competing and not just surviving in the prem, But i was not not expecting it this season and although i would be disappointed not to go up, I will not be gutted. I just think that now we are in a good position, The whole club has to go for it and not look back at the end of the season and say, Maybe we could have gambled that little bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 you'd argue though that it will go one of two ways... the 'owners' pocket the cash (therefore recouping their investment), and bail out.... OR .... they invest the cash (earned from promotion) in trying to prolong the Premier league cash-cow. I don't think doing neither, which I think is what you're suggesting might happen, will actually happen as it will tie the owners to the club for longer, and mean a longer wait for a return. Not sure you've grasped the point I was making.If they were to invest the amount stated (£10/12m on permanents + a couple of loans),then they would be spending the majority of a cash surplus on operations and thus there wouldn't be anything left to meaningfully reduce their exposure.However,they wouldn't be increasing their financial input.My comparison is based on a position of bottom place (as this is where we finished in 07/08)-for every place we managed to finish above this,the cash surplus would increase accordingly (but you couldn't budget for this eventuality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 We shall finnish for god sake steve knows premer league inside out back to front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 That's a bit of a jump from the £10/12m you were asking for earlier,Ambitious.If they're already up to their necks to the tune of c£60m (by now),then I can't see the £50m you expect,nor would I see it as being something fair to expect-i doubt that,having rescued a fairly grim situation,they'd jeopardise it with massive investment.I'd expect (and be relatively happy) to see the £10/12m you suggest,but perhaps a little more.These kind of figures should be well contained by the cash surplus on operations a Prem season might now throw up (even 07/08 would have supported this).Throw in a couple of quality season long loans and we might have a chance,because I believe we now have a few players far better suited to the Prem than their predecessors. I think some wrongly see me as something of a perennial board basher-not so,it's the impressions I believe to have been created that I rail against.My only real criticisms would be the Jan 08 spending and facilitating the notion that you could throw virtually a whole new team together and expect promotion.I also think that there have been times in the last few years when a little more might have been spent to further encouraging situations (11/12 springs to mind). As far as the thread title goes,I think it would be madness not to want promotion this year.We might not get the chance again,as next year would inevitably mean a rebuild,and anything could happen after that.Get aboard the gravy train,and don't spill the gravy. Sorry, I meant be willing to pay 10/12m PER player to actually bring in the kind of players we write off at other clubs but secretly wish we could sign. Although the sceptic in me thinks it will be a mixed bag of lower league players and players from abroad that we simply don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC_17 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 what football fan doesn't want to see their club in the premier league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawson Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Any team has to take the opportunities it gets..will Wisdom and Bamford stay next season in the championship? Probably not where as we stand a chance of getting them if we go up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky1884 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 No team winning promotion is ever ready. I think of it as the same as a job i like. Apply worry about the interview when you are invited for one and once youve passed the interview worry about if you can do the job . Until then dont worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 what football fan doesn't want to see their club in the premier league? Barcelona fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawson Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The other major point is looking at teams like Watford...last season top 2 up to the last day and now a mid table team or Bolton who were 7th last season. You can't rely on the second season being better especially with how reliant we are on loans at the moment..this could be the best chance for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHudson Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Barcelona fans Celtic fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Sorry, I meant be willing to pay 10/12m PER player to actually bring in the kind of players we write off at other clubs but secretly wish we could sign. Although the sceptic in me thinks it will be a mixed bag of lower league players and players from abroad that we simply don't know about. I suspect you might be in for a bit of disappointment.We all have our hopes and aspirations,but it's never a bad thing to try and put yourself in the shoes of the other guy.If I were to take off my Rams supporter's hat and put myself in the shoes of an investor (and I mean one of the smaller ones,not the mega rich),I might be reasonably happy to spend the surplus the Prem season would throw up,but might be even happier if my exposure were reduced a little.I'd want a situation whereby we were given a chance of staying up,but at the same time not compromising the 4 chute payments too much should we go down.I'd think that if the worst came to the worst,we might have up to 4 seasons to get back without any fresh financial input. For the 12/13 season the bottom club got about £8m more than we received via Prem central funds distribution.07/08 threw up a £14m cash surplus on operations,therefore on the basis of an admittedly simplistic extrapolation,a fresh Prem season may well throw up £20m+.Far from an exact science,but at least it gives a flavour (and wages would have to be kept in check).I might have to increase my expectation to around £15m +a couple of season long loans. I think some are scared of the Prem because they're viewing the league as a whole.We would effectively be scrapping to do well within a mini league of about 10 clubs-not quite so daunting,and an approach I remember Jim Smith taking. I feel the problem our owners might have would be in finding some middle ground between fans' expectations and their own (probably pragmatic)plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 We shall finnish for god sake Steve knows premer league inside out back to front. This is what gives me confidence that we'd do alright. Steve has great experience assisting Jim, then assisting Fergie, then managing Middlesborough. Middlesborough weren't world beaters, but I don't remember them ever being in serious danger of being relegated during his tenure, and they sustained a cup run and a European campaign. I'd love that for us. He's had good experiences at the very top in other countries too, and, more recently he's had a few set backs, but it seems he's definitely got his mojo back. So I'd be really confident he'd have a good shout at getting us at least as good as Boro were. I used to think we'd be better off having at least one more 'fun' season actually winning on a consistent basis at the top of the Champ. But the Prem is so weak at the minute. There are about 6 clubs that only won't go down because there are 3 clubs worse than them. There will, more than likely, be at least 3 clubs worse than us next season. I'm scared of the likes of Man Utd. and Chelsea, but I'm not scared of the Premier League as a whole. West Ham, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Cardiff, West Brom, Norwich, Sunderland, Villa, Hull, Stoke. You think we can't take these teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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