Silver Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I just don't think we are ready and believe that we will do better in the long-run if Steve and his management team are given a summer to build a stronger playing staff with more player who could potentially make the step-up to the Premier. I don't think we are either strong enough or savvy enough to get 2nd spot this year. Automatic promotion next season with a stronger squad would put us a much better position to go up and establish ourselves in Premier than having to gamble on bringing in replacements in the summer who we will need to gel immediately if we are to get a good enough start to stay up. For example, if we went up this season, we are likely to need an entire new back-four and defensive midfield, building that on paper and hoping it will gel immediately will be a big ask. When we went up under Billy we fooled ourselves into thinking we could build a competitive team from players who had either never been considered by Premier clubs or those rejected as not good enough by clubs in the Premier (I think our entire back-four and goalkeeper had all been released by low level Premier clubs because they were no longer first choice in their respective positions). I think we are in danger of doing the same again e.g. Martin released as not good enough by Norwich on a free even though he had been a major contributor to their promotion to the Premier. I'm not saying all those released, or never picked-up, by Premier clubs are not good enough but I think many under estimate the difference in the type of player you need to get up to, and the establish yourself in, the Premier. Some clubs do go up with average at best players and then seem to be able to harness team spirit to stay-up, they tend to be one-season wonders at best though. I believe that over the next 12-months Steve and his team can bring in and develop from within players who could form the nucleus of a Premier team with a few key additions making the difference. That said, I think we will finish in the play-offs as will F****t, I don't want to lose to the dirty red dogs so I will be cheering for us a loudly as anyone if we are in the mix at the end of the season.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 No team winning promotion is ever ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 But some are more ready than others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I strongly disagree - going up this season would give us almost a clean slate to start fresh. I think being bogged down with big squad with a lot of average players is a worse way to go up, as you could potentially end up sitting on a ridiculously huge squad with perhaps only 1/3 upto that standard. Promotion does mean we could attract a higher class of player, but undoubtedly we would need huge investment from the off - depends if we are backed accordingly. in short, I'd rather be promoted in our shoes than I would Leicester or Forest, although Leicester could just about rid their squad at the end of the season due to their contractual situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I want to see us go down this season to give us a chance to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I want Derby to get promoted every year. I want us to be back in the promised land. I want Derby on match of the day. That's why my anger towards NC became so fierce by the end. No club should be happy to stagnate like Jordans breast milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 There's nothing to achieve down here. There's no money in it. You're best players can be whipped away because they know the PL is the place where all the money and glory is. As for being ready. The PL is slower, more disciplined. The teams that will always stand the best chance of surviving will be those that can retain the ball. That aren't hitting percentage balls for better teams to gobble up. Down here you can play a relatively simple game of chance and teams seem to struggle to deal with it. It's faster because effort is often the substitute for ability. These fast and often scrappy games that are wide open don't really help a team play any sort of slower tactical game. For example I'd say Brighton are more suited to the PL then Burnley. I think Burnley would get slaughtered without major changes. I mean come on, Shackell and Co might have enough about them to deal with David Nugent and Jordan Rhodes but when international attackers that cost a good few million start patiently picking at them and teasing them it will take more than a well placed hoof for Ings to pressurise to get 3pts. I think you've got to have the bravery to play a bit to stand the best chance. If you have that then you're halfway there. As for individual players. Well, as soon as you get a PL badge on your shirt the amount of players that are available greatly increases. It's the shop window. The money spinner. I wouldn't worry about who is good enough individually. There's lots of players in the PL that would drop into this division and vanish. It's getting that balance right. Getting those first few signings to more tightly knit things together. You get that right, survive a season and go from there. Look at the individuals that Norwich and Villa and Stoke have used to stay up. Read the names of the individuals. We call some of them established PL players but that just means they've survived up there. Tons of them never actually winning bigger moves or enjoying success. Look at the Saints team. The Swansea team. The ones that not only survived but looked like they would survive easily from day 1. Nathan Dyer? Danny Graham? Rickie Lambert? Lallana who's stepped up his game unbelievably every promotion? The Hull side. To stand a chance all you need to do is be a team that has gained promotion by playing what a lot of people call the right way. A more intricate, intelligent way of playing. I doubt Leicester would stay up easily under Pearson. I wouldn't call his football especially intelligent. What they seem to have is enough individual quality teams can't deal with. Dyer, Knockaert, Nugent.. Obviously they'll invest heavily and pay the wages out to give themselves the best chance. And the PL bottom 10 looks quite poor. But I think they'll find that the teams up there have had far more to worry about than what they're offering right now. That's just my bet though. All my opinion but I think we're better equipped than before. The PL is weaker. We've got Hull, Sunderland, Villa, Stoke etc to battle it out with. I'm not saying we'd stay up. But I think we'd have as good a chance as ever. Bottom line for me is, the longer it takes the quicker your best players leave. A 46 game season is a lot of matches for small squads. A team that might look nailed on for next season could soon be down to bare bones and back in midtable. A few signings to tighten up a bit. Tighten the ball retention, the shape and discipline. It's always the biggest transfer window any team will ever experience. It's vital to a Champ side going up. But we can do it. If Burnley go up or Forest under current managers I think they'd be down straight away. QPR/Leicester have the money to stand a chance. Reading and Ipswich - nope. Brighton and Derby - a slim chance if they spend wisely and don't lose confidence in the way they play. The best 3 to stay up of the top 6 - Leicester, QPR, Derby. The worst - Forest, Burnley, Reading Different leagues, different requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm not that fussed about promotion to be honest. Can see Foxes QPR and Burnley going up but I am willing to be surprised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm not that fussed about promotion to be honest. You will be happy with our defence then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 You will be happy with our defence then, right? As usual you have just hit the nail on the head lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 There's nothing to achieve down here. There's no money in it. You're best players can be whipped away because they know the PL is the place where all the money and glory is. As for being ready. The PL is slower, more disciplined. The teams that will always stand the best chance of surviving will be those that can retain the ball. That aren't hitting percentage balls for better teams to gobble up. Down here you can play a relatively simple game of chance and teams seem to struggle to deal with it. It's faster because effort is often the substitute for ability. These fast and often scrappy games that are wide open don't really help a team play any sort of slower tactical game. For example I'd say Brighton are more suited to the PL then Burnley. I think Burnley would get slaughtered without major changes. I mean come on, Shackell and Co might have enough about them to deal with David Nugent and Jordan Rhodes but when international attackers that cost a good few million start patiently picking at them and teasing them it will take more than a well placed hoof for Ings to pressurise to get 3pts. I think you've got to have the bravery to play a bit to stand the best chance. If you have that then you're halfway there. As for individual players. Well, as soon as you get a PL badge on your shirt the amount of players that are available greatly increases. It's the shop window. The money spinner. I wouldn't worry about who is good enough individually. There's lots of players in the PL that would drop into this division and vanish. It's getting that balance right. Getting those first few signings to more tightly knit things together. You get that right, survive a season and go from there. Look at the individuals that Norwich and Villa and Stoke have used to stay up. Read the names of the individuals. We call some of them established PL players but that just means they've survived up there. Tons of them never actually winning bigger moves or enjoying success. Look at the Saints team. The Swansea team. The ones that not only survived but looked like they would survive easily from day 1. Nathan Dyer? Danny Graham? Rickie Lambert? Lallana who's stepped up his game unbelievably every promotion? The Hull side. To stand a chance all you need to do is be a team that has gained promotion by playing what a lot of people call the right way. A more intricate, intelligent way of playing. I doubt Leicester would stay up easily under Pearson. I wouldn't call his football especially intelligent. What they seem to have is enough individual quality teams can't deal with. Dyer, Knockaert, Nugent.. Obviously they'll invest heavily and pay the wages out to give themselves the best chance. And the PL bottom 10 looks quite poor. But I think they'll find that the teams up there have had far more to worry about than what they're offering right now. That's just my bet though. All my opinion but I think we're better equipped than before. The PL is weaker. We've got Hull, Sunderland, Villa, Stoke etc to battle it out with. I'm not saying we'd stay up. But I think we'd have as good a chance as ever.Bottom line for me is, the longer it takes the quicker your best players leave. A 46 game season is a lot of matches for small squads. A team that might look nailed on for next season could soon be down to bare bones and back in midtable. A few signings to tighten up a bit. Tighten the ball retention, the shape and discipline. It's always the biggest transfer window any team will ever experience. It's vital to a Champ side going up. But we can do it. If Burnley go up or Forest under current managers I think they'd be down straight away. QPR/Leicester have the money to stand a chance. Reading and Ipswich - nope. Brighton and Derby - a slim chance if they spend wisely and don't lose confidence in the way they play. The best 3 to stay up of the top 6 - Leicester, QPR, Derby. The worst - Forest, Burnley, Reading Different leagues, different requirements. Excellent point. See Watford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm not that fussed about promotion to be honest. Can see Foxes QPR and Burnley going up but I am willing to be surprised Then why are you complaining about certain players and a certain former manager not being good enough to take us forward? There isn't much further for us to go except promotion, which surely has to be the aim given the rhetoric wh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm not that fussed about promotion to be honest. Can see Foxes QPR and Burnley going up but I am willing to be surprised Then why are you complaining about certain players and a certain former manager not being good enough to take us forward? There isn't much further for us to go except promotion, which surely has to be the aim given the rhetoric when Clough was dismissed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Then why are you complaining about certain players and a certain former manager not being good enough to take us forward? There isn't much further for us to go except promotion, which surely has to be the aim given the rhetoric when Clough was dismissed...I have double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I do not whats wrong with we have to take this chance with both hands with promation money steve go and get us players that make us a force in the premer league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_Stand_Ram Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Mental. Never understood saying I don't want us to go up..... Course we should, it's the holy grail, it's what we should be targeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's like having sex and not wanting to orgasm. For years we've been banging away with a minger and no end product, it's about time we let the juices flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Stupid thread We need to get promoted to help finances Look what West Brom did going up then down then up to finally cement a place in the prem. You can never be 100% "ready" for the prem anyway. This time we have learnt from our mistakes and it gives the fans a chance to see what the American Owners will do if we make it to the big time. After all they have said they will back is when we make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I don't want to be promoted if we're going to 'skimp' out on the financial side though. We would need huge investment, otherwise it would be a dour year. Hopefully, the board are ready to put £10/12m down on players and bring in some talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I don't want to be promoted if we're going to 'skimp' out on the financial side though. We would need huge investment, otherwise it would be a dour year. Hopefully, the board are ready to put £10/12m down on players and bring in some talent.But if we do get promoted will we be able to keep Will Hughes and the likes of Bamford and Wisdom etc. Its like you say huge investment would be required and im not sure that would be forthcoming . In principle it would be great to go up with McClaren but he needs full backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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