Albert Bueno

[Bris Vegas]

Some players obviously play better in a better team and would naturally get worse in a worser team..

 

It was clearly a case with Bueno.. did people really expect him to be the same classy influential player as he was for the first few months playing in a woeful side?

 

There were 2 games then that were so contradictive it's very difficult to believe it was the same team..

 

Derby 4-1 Watford

Tomasz Cywka scored twice as Derby cruised to a convincing win over Watford to go seventh in the table.

Derby County cruise to victory at Pride Park, thoroughly outclassing Watford.

 

Watford 3-0 Derby

Free-scoring Watford notched three goals in nine first-half minutes to see off dismal Derby and rack up a seventh consecutive Championship victory.

Watford hit three goals in nine first-half minutes to see off dismal Derby and rack up a seventh consecutive Championship win.

 

It's amazing how those two games were in the space of only 3 months..

 

It wasn't long ago that people were saying Adam Johnson should be a Man City and England regular and that he's naturally gifted with excellent technique etc.. He goes to Sunderland and all of a sudden he's an average winger? Well what were people expecting, him to be tearing defenders a new one whilst playing for a negative hoofball Sunderland side..

 

Bueno was a key cog in a successful formula that NC created.. Without the attacking guys the formula went to pot.. So once Cywka was left out, Green was then placed at RB, Kuqi returned to his parent club, Commons was sold, and our new tactics consisted of hoofing the ball upto Porter at any given opportunity bypassing the midfield of course Bueno wasn't going to be the same player..

 

He'd walk into any NPC side now.. And it's even more ridiculous to suggest that he wouldn't improve us at all.. The guy has far more ability than the likes of Ward, Jacobs, Coutts and Hendrick.. The NPC isn't 'too difficult' for him like it isn't too difficult for any player with an ounce of ability.. Feck me even Sammon doesn't look too out of place in the NPC and at times he's about as useful as a doorframe

[Albert]

10/10 - That's some lovely gymnastics to get around the fact that both Cywka and Bueno turned to rubbish when it started to get cold. Don't blame them, blame the rest of the team!

[LittleEatonRam]

The very fact that English fans have a tendency to regard good players with ability like Bueno who aren't huff-and-puff work horses as 'a luxury' is the reason we as a nation are so far behind when it comes to producing technically gifted youngsters.  And why we haven't been in a major final for almost 50 years.

[bcnram]

The very fact that English fans have a tendency to regard good players with ability like Bueno who aren't huff-and-puff work horses as 'a luxury' is the reason we as a nation are so far behind when it comes to producing technically gifted youngsters.  And why we haven't been in a major final for almost 50 years.

I think the issue is that in this country due to the relatively low number of good coaches (now being addressed), that we as a country have tended to divided players into hard working or skillful. The fact is that almost without exception, the best skillful players in the World are also hard working, the two go hand in hand. 

[LittleEatonRam]

I think the issue is that in this country due to the relatively low number of good coaches (now being addressed), that we as a country have tended to divided players into hard working or skillful. The fact is that almost without exception, the best skillful players in the World are also hard working, the two go hand in hand. 

 

Absolutely correct. Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo etc all work hard on the field, it's just that nobody mentions it because 1) they have other, more important qualities and 2) it kind of goes without saying.

 

Our problem is that we laud players like Scott Parker et al because they "give 110%". But what happens when you give 110% but come up against an opponent who also gives 110% but is better than you technically? You lose.

 

I agree about the coaching as well; it's the single biggest problem in English football. English children aren't born without the ability of their Spanish counterparts - it's coached out of the English and developed in the Spanish.

[Asanovic]

Much preferred Lupoli

[EastKentRam]

Players getting praised for effort/working hard is the thing that most infuriates me about football.

 

You're supposed to put f*cking effort in, it's nothing to shout about. 

 

Players like Scott Parker (good example, most over rated player in football history), Savage, Sammon, Mackail Smith and countless others have all conned their way to the level they're at. There's no skill in working hard.

 

As LittleEatonRam said, this British mentality of loving players that work hard is a huge reason as to why the national team are so poor. 

 

Keith Hill makes a good point here http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rochdale-boss-keith-hills-amazing-1738106. I love Keith Hill, I love any manager that sticks to their principles and tries to play the game the right way, another good read http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Style-crucial-Rochdale-manager-Hill/story-11659147-detail/story.html#axzz2RBwrcEeN. 

[uttoxram75]

Agree with EKR and LER.

 

Like already said, Messi, Iniesta and co would not be as successful without the work ethic. It should be a given for any pro footballer to be prepared to work like mad for the team. 

 

The real shame is if a player has the ability but not the mindset to work hard enough to be able to use it.

 

A good example is Tarabt at QPR - no one can question his skill yet more than one manager has left him out due to his inability to work for the team. He needs to sit and watch Barcelona dvd's for a few hours a day!

[Bris Vegas]

10/10 - That's some lovely gymnastics to get around the fact that both Cywka and Bueno turned to rubbish when it started to get cold. Don't blame them, blame the rest of the team!

 

So you thinmk Cristiano Ronaldo would put in the same levels of performance playing for Stoke City?

 

Don't be ridiculous of course Nigel's hoofball hindered Bueno

[Asanovic]

Agree with this to an extent but the best English players aren't necessarily the hardest workers, and err on the side of being technically gifted rather than grafters - Rooney, Cole, Hart. Same with Derby - Brayford, Hughes, Keogh, Hendrick. They're our standouts, wouldn't necessarily say any of them works harder than Sammon, Roberts, Bryson etc.

 

A football team needs to be a blend of these two, same as any other team in any industry.

 

I work in IT - we have Project Managers, people who work with customers and have real flair, then we have programmers - earphones in, grafting away. It's how teams work.

 

Wouldn't say that some of the people EKR have mentioned have conned people to the level they reached - there's a requirement for players like them (as well as technical players).

[ramblur]

Agree with EKR and LER.

 

Like already said, Messi, Iniesta and co would not be as successful without the work ethic. It should be a given for any pro footballer to be prepared to work like mad for the team. 

 

The real shame is if a player has the ability but not the mindset to work hard enough to be able to use it.

 

A good example is Tarabt at QPR - no one can question his skill yet more than one manager has left him out due to his inability to work for the team. He needs to sit and watch Barcelona dvd's for a few hours a day!

Suarez is a hungry player though utch-what d'ya reckon?

[Mostyn6]

The very fact that English fans have a tendency to regard good players with ability like Bueno who aren't huff-and-puff work horses as 'a luxury' is the reason we as a nation are so far behind when it comes to producing technically gifted youngsters.  And why we haven't been in a major final for almost 50 years.

 

 

I think it was Xabi Alonso said he was confused as to why in England, if a player takes a shot that goes miles wide or high of the goal, the fans go "Oooooooooooooooh" and start applauding. In Spain, that's regarded as poor play and wouldn't be appreciated by fans.

[Mostyn6]

Players getting praised for effort/working hard is the thing that most infuriates me about football.

 

You're supposed to put f*cking effort in, it's nothing to shout about. 

 

Players like Scott Parker (good example, most over rated player in football history), Savage, Sammon, Mackail Smith and countless others have all conned their way to the level they're at. There's no skill in working hard.

 

As LittleEatonRam said, this British mentality of loving players that work hard is a huge reason as to why the national team are so poor. 

 

Keith Hill makes a good point here http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rochdale-boss-keith-hills-amazing-1738106. I love Keith Hill, I love any manager that sticks to their principles and tries to play the game the right way, another good read http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Style-crucial-Rochdale-manager-Hill/story-11659147-detail/story.html#axzz2RBwrcEeN. 

 

 

Are you for real? Scott Parker is a quality player, not only is he committed and hard-working, he can pass, tackle, dribble with the ball and do it all consistently. If he was French, or African, people would rave about him. He'd have 50 more caps if he was any other nationality, including the better nations like Brazil and Argentina!

 

Football is about balance, and for years England struggled to shoe-horn Lampard and Gerrard into the team. It made England unbalanced cos there was a lack of tenacity in midfield.

 

To say Parker is overrated is sheer ignorance. Just a shame he only got international recognition recently. We all saw Tottenham capitulate once he got injured last season.

[Stive Pesley]

Mostyn mate – if you seriously think Scott Parker is a world-class footballer then that explains a lot about all your other posts on this forum. Clueless.

 

He works hard yes, but world-class…hahahaha

[Mostyn6]

Mostyn mate – if you seriously think Scott Parker is a world-class footballer then that explains a lot about all your other posts on this forum. Clueless.

 

He works hard yes, but world-class…hahahaha

 

Sorry? are you seeing things?

[Mostyn6]

Well? Where did I mention anything about 'World Class'.

 

It's pretty clear that England don't possess any world class players.

 

Maybe four years ago, I'd have said Terry, Cashley and Rooney, maybe Gerrard were borderline...

[DCFCfranco]

Are you for real? Scott Parker is a quality player, not only is he committed and hard-working, he can pass, tackle, dribble with the ball and do it all consistently. If he was French, or African, people would rave about him. He'd have 50 more caps if he was any other nationality, including the better nations like Brazil and Argentina!

 

Football is about balance, and for years England struggled to shoe-horn Lampard and Gerrard into the team. It made England unbalanced cos there was a lack of tenacity in midfield.

 

To say Parker is overrated is sheer ignorance. Just a shame he only got international recognition recently. We all saw Tottenham capitulate once he got injured last season.

hes overrated.

[Mostyn6]

hes overrated.

 

by who?

[Mary Hindge]

Although he is overrated, i would say more people under rate him!!!

 

You need balance in a team, I love fancy pants palyers but just as much I love players who can break up play with a crunchimg tackle and gets the fans onside!!!

 

Who would win 11 Mesi's v 11 Parkers???

[Pearl Ram]

by who?

You for starters by the looks of it  "http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/whistling" alt="whistling">