Albert Bueno

[WilkoRam]

There's a difference between hard work and running around aimlessly after lost causes and "getting stuck in". Messi who is arguably the best player now and possibly ever, is a hard working footballer, but he doesn't run about a huge amount. He's clever, you watch him off the ball and a lot of the time he'll be stood still but then he'll find that bit of space and when he gets the ball he bursts into life.

I'm only going to Messi for the extreme but the fact is in Enlgand we still consider those who chase all over the pitch (such as Savage) as being to players who give 100% and those others who don't as being lazy and uninterested when that's not the case. Some players are just clever and use their energy wisely.

If Bueno had run after keepers and defenders he was never going to catch then people on here would be banging on about his work ethic, when in reality it does very little. I'd prefer him not to do that and to find some space, but that would only work if someone tried to play the ball to his feet and make a run for him to find.

[DCFCfranco]

by who?

most

[EastKentRam]

Are you for real? Scott Parker is a quality player, not only is he committed and hard-working, he can pass, tackle, dribble with the ball and do it all consistently. If he was French, or African, people would rave about him. He'd have 50 more caps if he was any other nationality, including the better nations like Brazil and Argentina!

 

Football is about balance, and for years England struggled to shoe-horn Lampard and Gerrard into the team. It made England unbalanced cos there was a lack of tenacity in midfield.

 

To say Parker is overrated is sheer ignorance. Just a shame he only got international recognition recently. We all saw Tottenham capitulate once he got injured last season.

 

Lol to Parker being able to pass and dribble

 

He tries to take the ball forward and is so clueless he just runs into holes and gives it away. He can pass it side ways pretty well, I'll give him that.

 

I actually think Parker is pretty good, for his type of player he's one of the best. He was severely over rated though, during a spell Spurs had a couple of season ago, near the start I think, he was getting credited for every one of their wins despite Van Der Vart and Modric being the ones creating everything. 

 

How many games has he played this season? They done alright yesterday without him, especially when Tommy came on and showed them how to pass it. 

 

He kind of sums up the points made in this thread, England love a trier. If Parker grew up in Spain he'd be working in Macdonalds. 

[feris bueller day off]

Lol to Parker being able to pass and dribble

 

He tries to take the ball forward and is so clueless he just runs into holes and gives it away. He can pass it side ways pretty well, I'll give him that.

 

I actually think Parker is pretty good, for his type of player he's one of the best. He was severely over rated though, during a spell Spurs had a couple of season ago, near the start I think, he was getting credited for every one of their wins despite Van Der Vart and Modric being the ones creating everything. 

 

How many games has he played this season? They done alright yesterday without him, especially when Tommy came on and showed them how to pass it. 

 

He kind of sums up the points made in this thread, England love a trier. If Parker grew up in Spain he'd be working in Macdonalds. 

 

Defensive midfielder must be the easiest position to play in professional football - just because expectations are set so low. Nobody expects you to score or create chances. Even if you fail to tackle or lay it off, the centre backs are expected to get you out of jail.

[Alph]

I think Parker is pretty good. Quite tidy and decent at protecting CB's.

But that's it, just good. The hype over him at WHU was unreal. It was like Messi or Bale. Every pass is "great" and every shot off target is a "warning" etc. Nothing was considered poor.

I know Messi is the best btw, but sometimes commentators seem to think EVERYTHING he does is amazing. Same with Bale atm and Parker a year or two ago. It's just a pass like any other! Stop the hype over it.

It made Parker a target for criticism. Like Bale. Truth is they're good. Just they get overrated and then underrated as a reaction.

He's alright.

[Alph]

Defensive midfielder must be the easiest position to play in professional football - just because expectations are set so low. Nobody expects you to score or create chances. Even if you fail to tackle or lay it off, the centre backs are expected to get you out of jail.

Yeah probably.

I used to play in CM in 442. Whenever I had my usual partner next to me we used to end up forming a diamond because it was easier to be a DM or AM rather than box to box CMs. Too much unnecessary communication if we played alongside each other. We'd take it in turns most the time. Both preferred the DM.

As long as nobody got a run at a CB then you couldn't do much wrong. If a runner did pass you or a CB did get someone running at them head on with the ball you'd get a right bollocking from our Captain/lead CB. Most the time it's just tidying up and picking up any striker that drops deeper. By just standing still it tends to force the opposition to play down the wings. Used to get a right bollocking at first from the manager because he wanted us both to get forward whenever possible. But then you'd get caught out on the counter and get a bollocking anyway so we just used to assign ourselves jobs.

Easy position but if played well and you fear the two CBs behind you then it becomes essential to the team. Everyone relies on you.

It's why I hate 442 and box to box midfielders. Just find the DM role makes life easier.

[LittleEatonRam]

Players getting praised for effort/working hard is the thing that most infuriates me about football.

 

You're supposed to put f*cking effort in, it's nothing to shout about. 

 

Players like Scott Parker (good example, most over rated player in football history), Savage, Sammon, Mackail Smith and countless others have all conned their way to the level they're at. There's no skill in working hard.

 

As LittleEatonRam said, this British mentality of loving players that work hard is a huge reason as to why the national team are so poor. 

 

Keith Hill makes a good point here http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rochdale-boss-keith-hills-amazing-1738106. I love Keith Hill, I love any manager that sticks to their principles and tries to play the game the right way, another good read http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Style-crucial-Rochdale-manager-Hill/story-11659147-detail/story.html#axzz2RBwrcEeN. 

 

Cheers for those links. I've always liked Keith Hill myself - there's something refreshing about his honesty. The same goes for Sean O'Driscoll too; he seems to talk about the game in a much more insightful way than most managers. I totally agree with KH's point in one of those pieces about how lots of managers have gone back to playing percentages due to the amount of insane sackings going on.

[LittleEatonRam]

There's a difference between hard work and running around aimlessly after lost causes and "getting stuck in". Messi who is arguably the best player now and possibly ever, is a hard working footballer, but he doesn't run about a huge amount. He's clever, you watch him off the ball and a lot of the time he'll be stood still but then he'll find that bit of space and when he gets the ball he bursts into life.

I'm only going to Messi for the extreme but the fact is in Enlgand we still consider those who chase all over the pitch (such as Savage) as being to players who give 100% and those others who don't as being lazy and uninterested when that's not the case. Some players are just clever and use their energy wisely.

If Bueno had run after keepers and defenders he was never going to catch then people on here would be banging on about his work ethic, when in reality it does very little. I'd prefer him not to do that and to find some space, but that would only work if someone tried to play the ball to his feet and make a run for him to find.

 

The bit I've highlighted is a great point, and one that rarely gets mentioned. That is the reason that Pirlo, despite being older than Gerrard or Parker, was strolling around the park in the QF of the last Euros against England, when the latter two were knackered and had cramp after 75 mins.

 

Closing down isn't necessarily about charging at the man who has the ball. Most continental sides recognise the need to shut sides down by closing down the space, and therefore their passing options.