Clough

[needles]

Nobody will be wanting us to fail next season. There's a difference between not wanting success and not believing it will happen under the current manager. Any Derby fan only wants what is best for the club and will happily say "wow, how wrong was I, Clough has shown me to be the fool and has proven me wrong" should it go that way. Just because they don't have this unwavering faith that it will come good and actually believe that 4.5 years is enough time for them to say "I don't think it will happen" doesn't mean they want us to fail.

I hate this attitude that because some don't see Clough as the beacon of light emanating from the club that somehow we all want losses and defeats so we can come on a website and say "oh look how clever I am".

It's called opinions and mine, and more so others, is that I don't think it will happen under Clough but I've never wanted to be proven wrong more about anything.

So lets stop with the "oh you're only happy if we lose" etc as its just nonsense directed at people who have a different view of the football under Nigel.

 

 

There are degrees of anti-Clough fans, just as there are degrees of support for him. The genuine group who feel as you do, and the extreme wing who genuinely do want us to fail (to some extent). I spoke to one outside the ground on Saturday, who said he was disappointed when we equalised at Barnsley because he wanted us right in it so Clough got sacked.

 

I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, but that attitude does exist and it would be sickening if it wasn't so easy to despise.

[sage]

Nobody will be wanting us to fail next season. There's a difference between not wanting success and not believing it will happen under the current manager. Any Derby fan only wants what is best for the club and will happily say "wow, how wrong was I, Clough has shown me to be the fool and has proven me wrong" should it go that way. Just because they don't have this unwavering faith that it will come good and actually believe that 4.5 years is enough time for them to say "I don't think it will happen" doesn't mean they want us to fail.

I hate this attitude that because some don't see Clough as the beacon of light emanating from the club that somehow we all want losses and defeats so we can come on a website and say "oh look how clever I am".

It's called opinions and mine, and more so others, is that I don't think it will happen under Clough but I've never wanted to be proven wrong more about anything.

So lets stop with the "oh you're only happy if we lose" etc as its just nonsense directed at people who have a different view of the football under Nigel.

I think there is a difference between having varying views on Clough and the unbridled pessimism, cynicism and criticism of 6 or 7 posters, who fill the forum with a every opportunity, swamping threads when we lose, starting multiple critical threads and then disappearing when we when win. They have nothing positive to say about anything and post with such enthusiasm after a loss that it can appear like they take pleasure in a loss. Indeed at least one of them has expressed a wish that we get relegated so it will mean Clough is sacked. Whether people rate Clough or not, I and I suspect many other people on this forum struggle to comprehend this determined negativity.

[CumbrianRam]

Its interesting how the vote as changed.

Early on it was anti-nige.

Then 50/50

Now lightly pro-nigel

But what really puzzles me is.........128 in + 119 out + 35 fence sitters = 282

Yet it says 312 have cast votes.

How does that work then?

You can select to view results, which classes as a total vote for some reason.

[BOB BIGGS]

Nobody will be wanting us to fail next season. There's a difference between not wanting success and not believing it will happen under the current manager. Any Derby fan only wants what is best for the club and will happily say "wow, how wrong was I, Clough has shown me to be the fool and has proven me wrong" should it go that way. Just because they don't have this unwavering faith that it will come good and actually believe that 4.5 years is enough time for them to say "I don't think it will happen" doesn't mean they want us to fail.

I hate this attitude that because some don't see Clough as the beacon of light emanating from the club that somehow we all want losses and defeats so we can come on a website and say "oh look how clever I am".

It's called opinions and mine, and more so others, is that I don't think it will happen under Clough but I've never wanted to be proven wrong more about anything.

So lets stop with the "oh you're only happy if we lose" etc as its just nonsense directed at people who have a different view of the football under Nigel.

I hear/read what you say but it isn't nonsense as far as I'm concerned. It's pretty near the truth. Probably too near for these folks to accept.The anti Clough brigade [you may or may not be one, I don't care either way] seem to believe that the "opposition" such as myself, are happy clappers, with little ability to think anything but positives about him. In my case, that is total nonsense too.

 

Many of those who wish Derby County to do well under Clough perhaps see that as an added bonus for a variety of reasons. I like his loyalty, his eye for signing talent from lower leagues, his commitment to the Club in difficult circumstances. I'm not fond of some of his stubbornness, his tactics away from home in many games and his own entrenched positions [perhaps a part of the stubborn nature].

 

I am sick and tired of reading about his supposed failures from the same people on so many different threads. Yes, these people are entitled to their opinions and so am I. I doubt we are strong enough as a Club to gain promotion for some time but like you, I really want that to happen. However, are you really telling me that they want Clough to do well? Are you really telling me that they are happy when we win with Clough as the manager? Do you believe that they would enjoy success under Clough next season if it came our way?

 

If you do, let's just agree to disagree because having read such a vast amount of "Clough criticism" from them over recent weeks, I don't accept that you are right.  I believe that many people enjoy the negativity. It's quite likely that they will do the same when the next manager comes along. I saw for myself on Saturday that many people who go to Pride Park cannot and will not be satisfied, irrespective of the result and how certain people perform.

 

Football has changed and so have the people who watch it. Unfortunately, I remain the same.

[rynny]

Has he actually taken us anywhere?

Yes. We were in the bottom 3 playing awful and looking like getting relegated and we are now a mid table team that can play good football occasionally. To me he has taken us on to the next level from where he took over. Maybe your hatred for everything Clough has done/will do has clouded your judgement?

[Gary Teale]

Yes. We were in the bottom 3 playing awful and looking like getting relegated and we are now a mid table team that can play good football occasionally. To me he has taken us on to the next level from where he took over. Maybe your hatred for everything Clough has done/will do has clouded your judgement?

 

We were 18th when Jewell resigned. We never looked like getting relegated at all as it was Dec when he went and we were also in the semi finals of the carling cup.

[WilkoRam]

There are degrees of anti-Clough fans, just as there are degrees of support for him. The genuine group who feel as you do, and the extreme wing who genuinely do want us to fail (to some extent). I spoke to one outside the ground on Saturday, who said he was disappointed when we equalised at Barnsley because he wanted us right in it so Clough got sacked.

I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, but that attitude does exist and it would be sickening if it wasn't so easy to despise.

If that's the case, and in sure it is as I have no reason to doubt you, then that is pathetic. Can some fans really dislike him that much to want us to lose and to go down? Well personally I'd like to distance myself from any of that. Seeing as its almost certain he'll be in charge next season I'll support him and look forward to the season in hope (more than expectation as I expect a repeat of the last 4 seasons).

I know a number of people on here are saying "next season is key" and "one more season" but what does that mean? If we have the repeat button pressed for a 5th season will that be the straw? Will there be mitigating circumstances cited again?

Personally if we play good football, I see some creativity and we are challenging for top 6 by the end (and I mean genuinely challenging not 'if we win two of our last three and one by 8 goals and the teams in 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th lose or draw their games, etc) then I'd hange my mind but I'll be surprised if its not a case of starting the season looking promising, our lack of pace and ideas start to show, we resort to safety first, we sink, 1st teamers suddenly get left out, there's moaning about individuals and we finish midtable. That's because I'm struggling to think of a season where that hasn't happened, not because I hate the guy or am Anti-Clough just don't see what will change.

[Mostyn6]

I hear/read what you say but it isn't nonsense as far as I'm concerned. It's pretty near the truth. Probably too near for these folks to accept.The anti Clough brigade [you may or may not be one, I don't care either way] seem to believe that the "opposition" such as myself, are happy clappers, with little ability to think anything but positives about him. In my case, that is total nonsense too.

 

Many of those who wish Derby County to do well under Clough perhaps see that as an added bonus for a variety of reasons. I like his loyalty, his eye for signing talent from lower leagues, his commitment to the Club in difficult circumstances. I'm not fond of some of his stubbornness, his tactics away from home in many games and his own entrenched positions [perhaps a part of the stubborn nature].

 

I am sick and tired of reading about his supposed failures from the same people on so many different threads. Yes, these people are entitled to their opinions and so am I. I doubt we are strong enough as a Club to gain promotion for some time but like you, I really want that to happen. However, are you really telling me that they want Clough to do well? Are you really telling me that they are happy when we win with Clough as the manager? Do you believe that they would enjoy success under Clough next season if it came our way?

 

If you do, let's just agree to disagree because having read such a vast amount of "Clough criticism" from them over recent weeks, I don't accept that you are right.  I believe that many people enjoy the negativity. It's quite likely that they will do the same when the next manager comes along. I saw for myself on Saturday that many people who go to Pride Park cannot and will not be satisfied, irrespective of the result and how certain people perform.

 

Football has changed and so have the people who watch it. Unfortunately, I remain the same.

 

I'm reading between the lines and imagine that you've pigeon-holed me in the anti-Clough group. I think it's closer to the truth to call me a 'non-believer in Clough'. My stance is often fortified and exagerated when people call me a WUM or Forest fan, or when someone attempts to defend something I don't believe is defendable. But on the whole, and I've said it a couple of times, I'd love nothing more than success under Clough. I do think it would seem more real with a local boy, who I don't doubt has the club at heart, and has good honest principles.

 

I said last week that I'd take defeat at Barnsley if it meant Clough left, admittedly, it was in the heat of rage. I would feel a tinge of sadness if/when Clough walks away and is not deemed a success. But my belief is my belief. I cannot see anything in his time here that suggests he has the wherewithal, nous, magic, innovation etc to bring success to Derby. Doesn't mean I hate him though.

[uttoxram75]

I'm reading between the lines and imagine that you've pigeon-holed me in the anti-Clough group. I think it's closer to the truth to call me a 'non-believer in Clough'. My stance is often fortified and exagerated when people call me a WUM or Forest fan, or when someone attempts to defend something I don't believe is defendable. But on the whole, and I've said it a couple of times, I'd love nothing more than success under Clough. I do think it would seem more real with a local boy, who I don't doubt has the club at heart, and has good honest principles.

 

I said last week that I'd take defeat at Barnsley if it meant Clough left, admittedly, it was in the heat of rage. I would feel a tinge of sadness if/when Clough walks away and is not deemed a success. But my belief is my belief. I cannot see anything in his time here that suggests he has the wherewithal, nous, magic, innovation etc to bring success to Derby. Doesn't mean I hate him though.

 

Glad you've changed your mind.

 

You once accused him of selling players for no other reason than personal financial gain.

[top 6 finish]

We were 18th when Jewell resigned. We never looked like getting relegated at all as it was Dec when he went and we were also in the semi finals of the carling cup.

We also finished 18th that season.2 seasons later we also finished 18th with the lowest points total ever gained

since the 3 points for a win rule came in.

[top 6 finish]

just to clarify i meant by DCFC.

[weedram]

We also finished 18th that season.2 seasons later we also finished 18th with the lowest points total ever gained

since the 3 points for a win rule came in.

But we had also got rid of some utter dross and signed players that had to be both better & cheaper

[WilkoRam]

We also finished 18th that season.2 seasons later we also finished 18th with the lowest points total ever gained

since the 3 points for a win rule came in.

I thought we finished 19th?

[WilkoRam]

But we had also got rid of some utter dross and signed players that had to be both better & cheaper

We finished lower due to having to get rid of utter dross?

[top 6 finish]

Sorry if i'm wrong,pretty close though.

[ramblur]

Glad you've changed your mind.

 

You once accused him of selling players for no other reason than personal financial gain.

Plus another distasteful accusation that was removed and I won't go into again.Mostyn might have been ok if he'd stuck to footballing matters,but the attempted smears say to me that he really dislikes Clough,despite his protests.

[Mostyn6]

Glad you've changed your mind.

 

You once accused him of selling players for no other reason than personal financial gain.

 

Not me pal. We've never made money from sales and I know that. I have accused him of selling players for the opposite of financial reasons! hahaha

 

 

Plus another distasteful accusation that was removed and I won't go into again.Mostyn might have been ok if he'd stuck to footballing matters,but the attempted smears say to me that he really dislikes Clough,despite his protests.

 

 

There's a difference between an observation and an accusation. So please get your facts right. I may have put a (attempted) humourous slant on it. But it was deleted before most saw it, so don't jump to conclusions.

 

There's no protest from me. Clough is a dedicated family man, I admire him for that. Clough is NOT a dedicated football man, I lack faith in him for that.

[ramblur]

Not me pal. We've never made money from sales and I know that. I have accused him of selling players for the opposite of financial reasons! hahaha

 

 

 

 

There's a difference between an observation and an accusation. So please get your facts right. I may have put a (attempted) humourous slant on it. But it was deleted before most saw it, so don't jump to conclusions.

 

There's no protest from me. Clough is a dedicated family man, I admire him for that. Clough is NOT a dedicated football man, I lack faith in him for that.

I'm fairly sure that what utch was referring to was your suggestion that Clough was on some kind of bonus for keeping to a cost cutting budget-something you also brought up some time in the past.You even asked me if he might be paid by GSE,rather than DCFC.A completely ridiculous suggestion-you could level such a suspicion against any manager attempting to stick to a budget,and as I pointed out before the CEO could veto any sales/incomings/wages he wished if such went against budget.

 

So there was a humorous slant to the other slur? I didn't see it,and I suspect most others didn't either.Please don't call me "pal" -get your facts right.

[Mostyn6]

I'm fairly sure that what utch was referring to was your suggestion that Clough was on some kind of bonus for keeping to a cost cutting budget-something you also brought up some time in the past.You even asked me if he might be paid by GSE,rather than DCFC.A completely ridiculous suggestion-you could level such a suspicion against any manager attempting to stick to a budget,and as I pointed out before the CEO could veto any sales/incomings/wages he wished if such went against budget.

 

So there was a humorous slant to the other slur? I didn't see it,and I suspect most others didn't either.Please don't call me "pal" -get your facts right.

 

that's different to saying he sells players for financial gain. That would be effectively saying he gets a brown paper bag of cash like his dad did. No, never said anything close. I asked questions about things I've heard, and you even say "you asked me if.." which means it wasn't a statement nor accusation.

 

Please do not twist my words or put words in my mouth, I never called YOU 'Pal' either, - get your facts right!

[ronnieronalde]

Not me pal. We've never made money from sales and I know that. I have accused him of selling players for the opposite of financial reasons! hahaha

 

 

 

 

There's a difference between an observation and an accusation. So please get your facts right. I may have put a (attempted) humourous slant on it. But it was deleted before most saw it, so don't jump to conclusions.

 

There's no protest from me. Clough is a dedicated family man, I admire him for that. Clough is NOT a dedicated football man, I lack faith in him for that.

 

Another totally outlandish statement Mostyn, you have nothing to back that up at all.