May Contain Nuts Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Cloughs first summer saw us drop a big chunk of wage and make over 2 million pound in transfer fees Tito went for 1.5million Dickinson for 300k Nyatanga for 500k Mears for 500k and we brought in Shaun Barker for 900k and Moxey 300k. not to mention the 5 figure players such as Todd, Sterjovski, Carroll, Clod, Albrechtsen and Barnes. (as well as the ones mentioned) all left. so we did cost cut that first summer under Clough dramatically, the year later was worse and since then past 2 years have been a steady building process. It's a decent turnover, I'll admit, but I'd say we got rid of players because Clough simply didn't want them and wouldn't have used them, rather than solely for financial reasons (although I'm not claiming that didn't play a part). Some of them are the epitome of what Clough desn't want in a player! After those exits we ploughed on with not exactly cheap loans of players from Premiership clubs like Frederik Stoor, Michael Tonge, Nicky Hunt and James Vaughan, we loaned DJ Campbell and Dickov from Leicester, youngsters like Giles Sunu, Javan Vidal, Cywka and Jake Livermore, experienced players like Bryan Hughes (from then Premiership Hull), Lee Johnson.... not all terribly good players but all of the combined wage contributions and loan fees for that lot would have been far from insignificant, and to me not (on the whole) activity indicative of a club who's FOCUS was on cost cutting. On top of that, we continued to carry the wages of Savage, Commons, Hulse, Bywater, McEveley, Leacock, Pearson, Teale even - none of those players would likely have been on Championship level wages after a stint in the Premiership, but were all 'available', albeit uselessly, to Clough. We shipped out a lot of those players (and sorted out more realistic contracts to those staying) at the start of the following season, and for me that's when the real focus on cost cutting began, the point at which we stopped paying top-of-the-scale Championship wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 coconut monkey beat me to it. I was going to suggest that none of the players sold were 'Clough-players' as such, and were on the fringes of the team. People sometimes paint the picture as if Clough was robbed of his best players out of needing to sell them, when in reality, we've not sold one player that Clough wanted to keep. Hulse was out of favour, dropped for Porter and Davies. Commons was third choice behind Pearson and Teale until both were injured, and he insists he was never even offered a contract. Green was fifth choice midfielder behind Bailey, Savage and a whole host of loanees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 coconut monkey beat me to it. I was going to suggest that none of the players sold were 'Clough-players' as such, and were on the fringes of the team. People sometimes paint the picture as if Clough was robbed of his best players out of needing to sell them, when in reality, we've not sold one player that Clough wanted to keep. Hulse was out of favour, dropped for Porter and Davies. Commons was third choice behind Pearson and Teale until both were injured, and he insists he was never even offered a contract. Green was fifth choice midfielder behind Bailey, Savage and a whole host of loanees. Agree with most, Commons was definitely offered a contract, and he certainly never, ever, EVER was behind anyone in the picking order. To the point where the team was built round him. And Hulse was never dropped, he started lagging and the decision to sell him at the time we did was genius, even more so if he went to boro when he was told to bloody go! Green also was first choice in our team, but towards the end was shifted around the 11 more for his versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepshedram Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 We were never poor towards the end under BD.. We just weren't as good as before.. Remember in February we won 6 on the bounce, it was always going to be tough to replicate that but we entered the playoffs in top 4 form.. I agree with your point about Sunderland, they had a great run under Keane, but we had automatic in the bag and BD bottled it.... I remember going to Barnsley away, winning there (2-1 I think) and thinking surely we're going up. But none of the quality shown earlier in the season was evident the longer the season went on, culminating in the awful performance at Palace that lost us the chance of automatic. For what it's worth I think this pattern of fading performances at key times is evident throughout BD's career. As for my wider point, nothing will convince me that a manager such as Billy is/was right for Derby. When we next get promoted it needs to be based on solid foundations and that takes time, whether with NC or any other manager. Credit to BD for creating a side capable of winning the play-offs, but history shows it was built on sand....a problem exacerbated by Jewell continuing to spend significant money on bodge-job quick fixes that didn't work. What do you believe Derby's next step should be? Do you think they should sack Clough? If so, do you believe that the model of steady progression is valid or should we be looking to get to the prem as quick as possible and take the risk that this time it will be OK - and gamble that a new manager makes it better not worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 No no no no no! My original point was that I don't accept that this Derby team is 'attacking'. So much so that I stated I believed that over the full 90 minutes of a game, Billy Davies' promotion team showed a lot more positive intent. Really? Because that's not the way I remember it... I remember a LOT of 1-0 wins and being woefully second best against both Southampton and WBA in the play-offs... To put into perspective we scored 3 more goals last season tha we did that promotion season... Surely goals dictate attacking intention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Really? Because that's not the way I remember it... I remember a LOT of 1-0 wins and being woefully second best against both Southampton and WBA in the play-offs... To put into perspective we scored 3 more goals last season tha we did that promotion season... Surely goals dictate attacking intention? I was never worried throughtout the game wba would beat us or even score. Southampton away we bossed the game after first half hour when we were battered. Maybe my memory is going with age, any1 got the game stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Play-off final stats http://espnfc.com/gamecast?id=217995&cc=5739# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I was never worried throughtout the game wba would beat us or even score. Southampton away we bossed the game after first half hour when we were battered. Maybe my memory is going with age, any1 got the game stats? Exactly how I remember it....The home match v Saints was like a cup final and could have gone either way. Anyway, we finished 8 points above West Brom and deserved to go up. We are way, way off topic btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I was never worried throughtout the game wba would beat us or even score. Southampton away we bossed the game after first half hour when we were battered. Maybe my memory is going with age, any1 got the game stats?Think you have got the Southampton league game mixed with the playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I was never worried throughtout the game wba would beat us or even score. I spent the last half hour of the game in a constant state of panic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Think you have got the Southampton league game mixed with the playoff game. No, he hasn't. The away leg, where we won 2-1, we hammered them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 No, he hasn't. The away leg, where we won 2-1, we hammered them.I know but I don't remember us being battered for the first half hour, which we was in the league game. Edit:just read the match report and said we struggled for first half hour. Same as the league game then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Fixed it for you. The goals from Hulse kept us up for two seasons and Commons kept us in 2010/11 for his performances in the first half of that season. They were useless, just looked better because of the dross that was around them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 coconut monkey beat me to it. I was going to suggest that none of the players sold were 'Clough-players' as such, and were on the fringes of the team. People sometimes paint the picture as if Clough was robbed of his best players out of needing to sell them, when in reality, we've not sold one player that Clough wanted to keep. Hulse was out of favour, dropped for Porter and Davies. Commons was third choice behind Pearson and Teale until both were injured, and he insists he was never even offered a contract. Green was fifth choice midfielder behind Bailey, Savage and a whole host of loanees. Bloody hell Mostyn you do come out with some ***** at times mate. Hulse and Commons played virtually every time they were fit. Was it you who mentioned re-writing history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Bloody hell Mostyn you do come out with some ***** at times mate. Hulse and Commons played virtually every time they were fit. Was it you who mentioned re-writing history? rubbish. Commons couldn't get a look in pre-xmas of 2010, I recommend you look back at some starting line ups. He was out of favour with many fans critical of him at the time and suggesting he was bombed out. It was only when both Pearson (preferred on the left over Commons) and then Teale were both injured that Commons got a start. If I hadn't just started work, I'd spend some time proving you wrong, but we both know you'd change the subject when I did. Similarly, Hulse was dropped once Porter was fit after his scrap with Savage. Yes, he was first choice when there was no alternative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 They had to look at alternatives but Commons especially played some of his best football under Clough. Hulse's niggling injuries had as much to do with him being left out as owt else. In hindsight, i would say Clough's management of both was generally excellent. I'm not sure what he could have done differently (other than offer them a shed load more cash!). It was an extremely difficult situation for any manager, trying to plan for the future on a far smaller budget while having big money players in the squad. Mistakes were undoubtedly made but looking back, it was far cannier management than many gave him credit for. We've got a good un here Mostyn, history will judge Clough's tenure in a far better light than some of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 They had to look at alternatives but Commons especially played some of his best football under Clough. Hulse's niggling injuries had as much to do with him being left out as owt else. In hindsight, i would say Clough's management of both was generally excellent. I'm not sure what he could have done differently (other than offer them a shed load more cash!). It was an extremely difficult situation for any manager, trying to plan for the future on a far smaller budget while having big money players in the squad. Mistakes were undoubtedly made but looking back, it was far cannier management than many gave him credit for. We've got a good un here Mostyn, history will judge Clough's tenure in a far better light than some of us do. I'm not saying that will or won't be the case here. I'm just saying that Commons was definitely out of favour. There was mischief making of a fall out. Fans wanting Commons gone. Then Pearson and Teale were injured, Commons got a game and was electric. There was a noticeable embrace with Clough when substituting Commons, and then from then, he performed 3 out of 4 games for Derby. He was motivated, and credit must go to Clough and co for that. BUT, and it is a but, had Pearson not been injured, would we have seen anything decent from Commons? It's a moot point now, but it could have been very different, for Derby, Commons and the fans. He could be at Bristol City now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 rubbish. Commons couldn't get a look in pre-xmas of 2010, I recommend you look back at some starting line ups. He was out of favour with many fans critical of him at the time and suggesting he was bombed out. It was only when both Pearson (preferred on the left over Commons) and then Teale were both injured that Commons got a start. If I hadn't just started work, I'd spend some time proving you wrong, but we both know you'd change the subject when I did. Similarly, Hulse was dropped once Porter was fit after his scrap with Savage. Yes , he was first choice when there was no alternative... He scored 13 goals and only missed 1 game for us that 'pre xmas 2010' and then transfered to Celtic. You're way way wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 He scored 13 goals and only missed 1 game for us that 'pre xmas 2010' and then transfered to Celtic. You're way way wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy off the mark. okay, I got the wrong year. I was typing in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 okay, I got the wrong year. I was typing in a hurry. The year before that he was injured A LOT - but was still first choice whenever he was fit. There was never a time where Kris Commons wasn't first choice for us when 100% - I am completely sure on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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