The Big Sammon Thread

[ChaddesdenRam]

To add to the scapegoat ammo

Sam rush opened up the Sammon Debate yesterday (seemed surprised noone had brought it up)

Said he had cost us £2m this year (must be on about 15k a week wages then)

Also took great effort to point out players score goals playing alongside him.

Were you there? Did he actually say Sammon cost 2 million this year!

[davenportram]

Yep I was there and they were his words (the one at the Flower Pot)

[ChaddesdenRam]

Yep I was there and they were his words (the one at the Flower Pot)

 

Ok so we shall do a bit of mathematics.

 

If Sammon cost us a total of 2 million this year. 

 

Lets firstly take the reported total of 1.2 million as the transfer fee paid to Wigan. 

 

That leaves 800,000.

 

Within that 800,000 there will be a signing on fee, I honestly don't know the usual amount but I could guess at around 100,000.

 

That means 700,000 on wages for one year. 

 

700,000/52 gives around 13k

 

So apparently Sammon is on 13k a week. 

 

Feel free to absolutely obliterate my numbers and say my calculations are wrong

[WestLondonRam]

Your calculations are wrong

[Hinzy9]

£2m !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

[Alph]

I'm not bothered whether he scores goals. That's not why I think he's poor.

I think he's poor because his first touch is poor, he takes too long to get control of the ball and his passing is not a patch on any midfielder. He jumps but I bet he wins less than 30% of aerial challenges without touching the ball.

THEN, he doesn't score.

I think Theo is poor. But he's been in the right place at the right time for us many times. Scoring goals and closing defenders down make him a decent cheap option for this level. Makes him better than Sammon.

People say 'you don't see Sammon does for the team'

No, I don't. Closing defenders down and being slightly annoying when they go for a header doesnt do much for me. Claiming a few assists and the odd goal where a better striker would do more. He does work hard but he's not effective.

I still cheer him though. And hope he gets better. But this hidden work... I don't see it

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I'm not bothered whether he scores goals. That's not why I think he's poor.

I think he's poor because his first touch is poor, he takes too long to get control of the ball and his passing is not a patch on any midfielder. He jumps but I bet he wins less than 30% of aerial challenges without touching the ball.

THEN, he doesn't score.

I think Theo is poor. But he's been in the right place at the right time for us many times. Scoring goals and closing defenders down make him a decent cheap option for this level. Makes him better than Sammon.

People say 'you don't see Sammon does for the team'

No, I don't. Closing defenders down and being slightly annoying when they go for a header doesnt do much for me. Claiming a few assists and the odd goal where a better striker would do more. He does work hard but he's not effective.

I still cheer him though. And hope he gets better. But this hidden work... I don't see it

 

He does much much more than you give him credit for. His team mates single him out as does his manager. He quite rightly is one of the first names on the team sheet.

[Albert]

Ok so we shall do a bit of mathematics.

 

If Sammon cost us a total of 2 million this year. 

 

Lets firstly take the reported total of 1.2 million as the transfer fee paid to Wigan. 

 

That leaves 800,000.

 

Within that 800,000 there will be a signing on fee, I honestly don't know the usual amount but I could guess at around 100,000.

 

That means 700,000 on wages for one year. 

 

700,000/52 gives around 13k

 

So apparently Sammon is on 13k a week. 

 

Feel free to absolutely obliterate my numbers and say my calculations are wrong

For the strike rate of his partners, I'd honestly take that happily.

Theo Robisnon - 11% increase

Jamie Ward - 429% increase

Theo Robinson - ∞% increase

...the numbers... uh... speak for themselves.

Seriously though, it's plain to see, regardless of opinion of Sammon, that we'd scored far more goals this season with him up front, and his partners are benefiting from his presence, whether individuals can see why or not. We're scoring more this season than we have since 2006-07, and if we score 3 more, we'll equal that. We're as it stands one of the highest scorers in the league, and one of the best in terms of scoring in most games. Whether people think he's a donkey or not, the hard numbers speak in his favour in that department, and strangely, he's sitting pretty much dead on my predict for him when he signed, although that's almost certainly more good luck than a good prediction.

[Alph]

He does much much more than you give him credit for. His team mates single him out as does his manager. He quite rightly is one of the first names on the team sheet.

Tbf I wouldn't expect any criticism from players or manager.

I honestly don't rate him. Not picking on him. My heart sank for him when he missed the peno at Leeds. He needed that to silence some boo boys.

He does run the channels and have decent movement but the bounces off him and he's always jumping underneath it.

I wasn't a big fan of Villa either. Lots of hustle and bustle but just not really doing owt. I thought Sammon did play well on Saturday but I honestly don't see what this hidden work is.

My favourite players tend to be players like Vieira, Pirlo, Xavi, De Jong, Makelele. Players that are the heart of teams but aren't spectacular. They just feed the teams they play for. Like Khedira or Shweinsteiger or Alonso they can be easy to overlook but are vital to their teams.

I just don't see anything from Sammon. Just a top work rate and a battling attitude.

I don't think he's always as awful as people make out. The way some people talk it's like they think he's the difference between mid table and promotion.

[Alex W]

To suggest that Sammon is the central cause of those increases as a 'definite' thing is a little odd Albert, as those stats can be interpreted in numerous different ways, as well you know.

 

He could just as easily, as I believe, be performing average to poorly at his role (depending on the quality of opposition, his best games have been against very poor sides) in a side that is going forwards more effectively in ways almost entirely unaffected by him.

[CumbrianRam]

He is a bog standard Champoinship player, not a lot of talent, poor ball skills but great work rate. He has good games and poor games. Not the type of player that will get you promotion, we probably overpaid for him, but that is the inflation you get from signing from English clubs.

[Albert]

To be honest, Sammon annoys me no end. He's hard to justify. He hassles opponents, he works hard, and somehow the players around him do significantly better. But it's hard to see what he does for the team looking at just him. This annoys me greatly, but it's hard to deny the numbers as they appear. The only answers beyond Sammon are Coutts (who is now the target of criticism...) and Hughes (who's only played about half the season). Ward has played less games than last season, but has been lethal, more so than Davies and Theo last season (again, Clough somehow gets a lot out of his supposedly poor strikers, compared to their previous records at least).

To me Sammon is a player we need, but not one we want. He does a job that's hard to define, but the result is obvious in the numbers. Again, this annoys me greatly, as I'd hope that after so many years I'd be able to readily see this in his game, but I can't. This leaves me in a position of either not understanding the game as I thought, or magic blaming Wizards for it.

[ronnieronalde]

To suggest that Sammon is the central cause of those increases as a 'definite' thing is a little odd Albert, as those stats can be interpreted in numerous different ways, as well you know.

 

He could just as easily, as I believe, be performing average to poorly at his role (depending on the quality of opposition, his best games have been against very poor sides) in a side that is going forwards more effectively in ways almost entirely unaffected by him.

I think that;s something you can't substantiate either though.

 

Where have his better games been against poor sides Alex?

 

the second part, can you explain what you mean by that. Not arguing just don't understand what you mean.

 

His goals have come against Watford, Cardiff, Boro, Leeds, Birmingham and Blackpool in this league. SUrely a budding journalist like yourself has to be a bit more impartial than you are here?

[Albert]

To suggest that Sammon is the central cause of those increases as a 'definite' thing is a little odd Albert, as those stats can be interpreted in numerous different ways, as well you know.

 

He could just as easily, as I believe, be performing average to poorly at his role (depending on the quality of opposition, his best games have been against very poor sides) in a side that is going forwards more effectively in ways almost entirely unaffected by him.

What do you credit it to then? Our weakness this season is clearly in defence. We're keeping less clean sheets, but we're scoring fine. Our attack is performing better with him and the only other changes are Coutts, Jacobs (largely off the bench) and Hughes (who has been our recently). Are you suggesting that Coutts is the key? Maybe Jacobs has been far more effective than we realise?

He annoys me, but he's around where I thought he would be. If he hit 10 goals next season, I'd be elated. I like seeing him on the team sheet, but I honestly struggle to give a good reason. Sammon should do as Sammon does, it works in it's own way.

[eddie]

I think that;s something you can't substantiate either though.

 

Where have his better games been against poor sides Alex?

 

the second part, can you explain what you mean by that. Not arguing just don't understand what you mean.

 

His goals have come against Watford, Cardiff, Boro, Leeds, Birmingham and Blackpool in this league. SUrely a budding journalist like yourself has to be a bit more impartial than you are here?

 

Partiality and/or made-up stories?

 

The Sun beckons.

[CornwallRam]

I think that Rush probably meant that Sammon has cost us £2m by being so rubbish that we have missed out on the extra revenue that getting promoted through the play offs would have earnt us this season.

[eddie]

I think that Rush probably meant that Sammon has cost us £2m by being so rubbish that we have missed out on the extra revenue that getting promoted through the play offs would have earnt us this season.

 

I think you forgot the '8' in front of the '2' if that's the case

[sheeponacid]

Well suppose Rush's comments should just about bring to an end the argument, on how much Wheelan took us for when we signed our top forward...strewth no wonder the man's a successful business man...buy him for 600K, he scores 1 goal in 32 then Wheelan sell's him for double..

 

OK it might still be less than the 1.2m, but if it is, then he's on even bigger wages, or he got one hell of a signing on fee...

 

I'm not particularly interested in Cox etc, their not our investment/player... pointing out other clubs flops doesn't make me feel any better about ours (yes in my opinion he a floppy).... nor does buying other clubs flops for double the amount that they brought them for, in the hope that they may come good...I'm sure it used to be that a players value dropped when they didn't deliver the goods, maybe it works differently in the states??

 

In my opinion it appears we have invested the most money we have spent in a while on a player that is short of the class required to take us forward. 

 

I just hope we will offer comparable wages to the players that could potentially take us forward, when their contracts are being re-negotiated...Brayford, Hughes etc

 

I would never give stick to one of our players when their on the pitch as after all they are our own..but I still believe he has been a failure at what we brought him here to do.. a forward that is allergic to finishing is not the answer to a sustained promotion push.

 

Got to admit though I do hope, if we don't off load him during the summer, that he rams my words down my throat next year by scoring 20+ goals.

 

Sorry for the moan..but seeing the money involved confirmed by Rush has set me off on one....

[sheeponacid]

Just to add I think if we had kept Shackell to partner Keogh instead of using his sale to fund the signing off Sammon we would off been better off points wise this year...

[ChaddesdenRam]

Well suppose Rush's comments should just about bring to an end the argument, on how much Wheelan took us for when we signed our top forward...strewth no wonder the man's a successful business man...buy him for 600K, he scores 1 goal in 32 then Wheelan sell's him for double..

OK it might still be less than the 1.2m, but if it is, then he's on even bigger wages, or he got one hell of a signing on fee...

I'm not particularly interested in Cox etc, their not our investment/player... pointing out other clubs flops doesn't make me feel any better about ours (yes in my opinion he a floppy).... nor does buying other clubs flops for double the amount that they brought them for, in the hope that they may come good...I'm sure it used to be that a players value dropped when they didn't deliver the goods, maybe it works differently in the states??

In my opinion it appears we have invested the most money we have spent in a while on a player that is short of the class required to take us forward.

I just hope we will offer comparable wages to the players that could potentially take us forward, when their contracts are being re-negotiated...Brayford, Hughes etc

I would never give stick to one of our players when their on the pitch as after all they are our own..but I still believe he has been a failure at what we brought him here to do.. a forward that is allergic to finishing is not the answer to a sustained promotion push.

Got to admit though I do hope, if we don't off load him during the summer, that he rams my words down my throat next year by scoring 20+ goals.

Sorry for the moan..but seeing the money involved confirmed by Rush has set me off on one....

In fairness usually whenever Nigel spent a substantial amount his signings have been good.

More than 500,000 is what I have gone by

Barker

Shackell

Keogh

Brayford

Bryson

Ward

Jacobs

Moxey

Sammon

On that list the worst signing is Sammon.

In my opinion Sammon is the only bad signing Clough has made for more than 500k. Simply put.