Dropping Attendences

[Albert]

vxc1k

The black line is Derby's change in attendance as a percentage since 2008-09, the red is as an average of the whole league since 2008-09 and the green is an average of the middle 12 clubs since 2008-09.

[eddie]

I would suggest that's a pretty damning statistic perfectly represented, Albert.

Now if only it was possible to determine precisely why in such a clear manner.

[Day]

Was listening to 606 on Sunday, apparently the Germans have it right, Bayern Munich charge €8 a ticket and €100 for a season ticket. Think it was Stuttgart the most expensive at €12 a ticket.

Yes you need the quality of football still but that's how you sell a stadium out.

[CornwallRam]

I worked in retail for many years. Every now and again the clever marketing people would brief everybody about the value that could be added by good customer service, well presented displays and staff upselling. Apparently, price was a marginal factor in people's buying decisions. It was folly to try to compete on price. This push would then be followed by a round of price increases.

After two months of falling sales there would then be a series of price reductions, often more than reversing the previous increases. Miraculously, sales would then pick up again.

Despite what marketeers tell you, price is king in sales. Customer service and well thiought out promotions help a little, but pale into insignificance to price. With a wealth of comparisons available on the internet, price has become even more dominant than ever before.

The demand based pricing model has increased the price of tickets for most transactions. There are a few SW corner cheap tickets available - but I reckon that even those tickets were actually slightly cheaper last year. But many people don't want to sit with the pidgeons and aren't able to comit months in advance to a match tickets - for those people (who I would say make up the vast majority of walk up buyers) tickets are often 50% dearer than last season. Add to that the extra £3 to buy on match day and it really feels that the club are not playing fair.

Why are our attendances down? The club have put the prices up too far - it really is that simple.

[Martyn]

The black line is Derby's change in attendance as a percentage since 2008-09, the red is as an average of the whole league since 2008-09 and the green is an average of the middle 12 clubs since 2008-09.

As clubs always have an inflated attendance for a couple of years after relegation, could you do a version of the graph with a baseline of 2010/2011?

[ramsbottom]

I don't think it's any coincedence that there's been a dramatic tail off since the new ticketing system has been brought in.

I know some will point out we're in a double dip recession but there's been a few games I could've gone to this year but have been put off by the fact you're no longer allowed to stroll up to the ticket office on match days and pay right there and then. I can imagine there's a lot of folk who feel the same way. Especially when tickets on the day are £5-10 dearer than they were when they first went on sale or compared to last year.

Also they haven't taken into account that if the team are on a bit of a run, say they've won 4 in a row (don't laugh!), fans will become more enthusiastic and want to see if we can make it 5 in a row. The only problem is, because the system takes into account our form the tickets will be more expensive compared to if we'd lost 4 in a row. If that was the case they'd be less demand so what's the point in keeping them reduced.

[Scott_dcfc]

I don't think it's any coincedence that there's been a dramatic tail off since the new ticketing system has been brought in.

I know some will point out we're in a double dip recession but there's been a few games I could've gone to this year but have been put off by the fact you're no longer allowed to stroll up to the ticket office on match days and pay right there and then. I can imagine there's a lot of folk who feel the same way. Especially when tickets on the day are £5-10 dearer than they were when they first went on sale or compared to last year.

Also they haven't taken into account that if the team are on a bit of a run, say they've won 4 in a row (don't laugh!), fans will become more enthusiastic and want to see if we can make it 5 in a row. The only problem is, because the system takes into account our form the tickets will be more expensive compared to if we'd lost 4 in a row. If that was the case they'd be less demand so what's the point in keeping them reduced.

Bang on mate,

I don't have a season ticket for various reasons, but its been great the last few years being able to give the lads a quick phonecall on a saturday morning and hop on a bus knowing its going to be around £30 for a ticket to the game that day.

Can't really afford it nowdays, your'e looking at 40-45 quid for a half decent seat with atmosphere. Rediculous.

Prices lower = Happy fans, and a smeg load more of 'em too.

[Alph]

Imagine if you were just a neutral. Say a German over here working. Or an Italian Milan fan visiting a friend. Fancy going to watch the local club who play in the second division?

Derby v Burnley. £35

Who?

Derby v Burnley. £35

Erm, I watched Milan v Inter and Bayern v Borrussia for less than that together!

See you Saturday?

[alexxxxx]

Its a shame that the system doesn't work...

[Duracell]

There's more than one factor contributing to this. Price is probably the greatest issue, as the prices have risen - but we still offer pretty cheap tickets in comparison to other clubs, and if you're bright enough to grasp the very simple concept of dynamic pricing, you can get a very cheap ticket if you buy early.

We're still in the post-Prem period and there's been very little to celebrate. In fact, we've not even been close enough to going down to have something to cheer about. It's not like we need to call on our home support to keep us up - we've been just about good enough to do that on our own, but nowhere near good enough to challenge near the top. Add this together with an inability to do well in the Cup as well, and a price increase is the last thing you need. If anything, to cut prices and get more bums on seats might even get the club more revenue. A 25% cut in prices could get a massive proportion of that missing 25% back who would be coming to the games spending money on food, shirts and programmes.

This season has actually been very entertaining and I've enjoyed it immensely. I'm counting down the days to the Hull game. But we've been used to dissapointment in recent seasons, but we've never been dissapointing enough to enter an interesting, adrenaline-pumping crisis. I don't think the Derby County match experience has been such a dull product since the 1960s.

[DenbyRam]

I also think there several factors in the drop in crowds.

The recession is shown to be affecting attendances throughout the football league, but DCFC have seen a significantly greater drop than most, and yet Derby is generally well placed to ride out the recession with such high tec firms such as Rolls Royce and Toyota.

I always think with DCFC that if the product on the pitch is half decent and the price is right the fans will come. I can't help think that a lot of fans, particularly ST holders, have been somewhat disenfranchised by the current board due to the massive number of "deals" there are around. For example they are selling ticket for Friday at £15 and get a free pie/pint thrown in. Where's the value in this to a ST holder having just seen their ST tickets go up by about 10%.

Also, let's be honest, there is the overriding sense of a lack of ambition at the club, starting with the owners, right through to the Manager. No-one wants us to be shouting from the rooftops that we demand promotion and expect to be Champions of Europe in five years, but a little bit of a sense that GSE and/or Clough fancy trying for promotion wouldn't go amiss. I work with, interact with, and am related to very many fellow Rams and I just get a feeling that there is a real lack of enthusiasm about the club at the moment.

What frustrates me is that, whilst no-one has the right to be in the Premier League, if the likes of WBA, QPR, Norwich, Wigan, Stoke and Southampton can survive and prosper up there, why can't we? The set up here is fabulous from the Academy, Moor Farm, Pride Park Stadium to the off field corporate side of things. Yet, the product on the pitch and the support for the manager from the Board appears patchy and lacking in ambition.

Finally, there is no doubt that the cost of tickets and the new demand based system is holding back sales. Notwithstanding the deals as I alluded to above, generally, we are still quite expensive for an afternoon's entertainment.

[Rampant Rob]

24,000 expected at Hull. Seems pretty decent for a Friday.

http://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/article/fridays-fixture-creating-a-buzz-551388.aspx

[ramblur]

Just noticed that total match receipts in 04/05 were only £25k lower than 10/11

[needles]

The pricing structure has failed to maximise gates. Get rid.

I have a ST, but I don't mind if the bloke next to me is paying the same or less for his ticket, I'd rather have the seat full.

Forest, fill your boots, we'll all pay it, otherwise there shouldn't be a ticket on the ground over £20.

Stick the prices up in big letters, no booking fees, no "on the day" surcharges. Simplicity is genius.

If we've got 33k in the ground every week It's worth a goal start. Come on Sam, are you reading???

[ramblur]

The pricing structure has failed to maximise gates. Get rid.

I have a ST, but I don't mind if the bloke next to me is paying the same or less for his ticket, I'd rather have the seat full.

Forest, fill your boots, we'll all pay it, otherwise there shouldn't be a ticket on the ground over £20.

Stick the prices up in big letters, no booking fees, no "on the day" surcharges. Simplicity is genius.

If we've got 33k in the ground every week It's worth a goal start. Come on Sam, are you reading???

The problem with that,needles,is that come April some S/T holders might realise they'd be better off just buying walk in tickets the following season.It's a complicated balancing act,which is why I've never criticised them over it and why I expressed the view earlier that the only sure fire way of increasing attendances lies in competing at the top (having said that,attendances may well start to rise because of a blossomoing Hughes).

Even under our present system,whereby tickets are a lot cheaper in advance,a S/T holder who can't attend all matches (maybe difficulty in attending night matches) might see value in individual tickets (both options involve paying in advance,but S/t 's more so).If the match by match option were taken,he or she might look at the fixture list ,and if it showed an unattractive fixture the week before Christmas,might decide to give that a miss.....and then there's the unexpecteds like weddings,etc.

It aint easy,I don't envy them.

[davenportram]

I would suggest that's a pretty damning statistic perfectly represented, Albert.

Now if only it was possible to determine precisely why in such a clear manner.

Not really it is comparing percentage change of one club to the average of the league and the middle constant performers

All it shows is we got 85% of 08/09 attendances in 2011 and now we get 75% of those attendances from 08/09

Don't forget these are post relegation and shows that attendances have dropped by 25% over the past 5 years the comparison with league average over that period is flawed because:

Comparing to the change in league average is a bit of skewed comparison because over the league there will be clubs dropping due to relegation and increasing due to promotion which will balance out

Comparing to the middle 12 clubs you'd expect then to stay constantish because those clubs are stable.

A better graph would be comparing the percentage change in attendances of us over he 5 years since relegation to other clubs who have been relegated and stayed down for five years.

[davenportram]

Or do a graph with a variable start date for a club being the year if relegation.

I'd suggest using DCFC, Middlesborough, Hull, Birmingham, or go back in the past and look at Sheffield United too.

Then we could see the percentage drop compared to time in the premiership year on year and compare like with like.

[ramblur]

Just noticed that total match receipts in 04/05 were only £25k lower than 10/11

In fairness,I should have pointed out that 04/05 featured a play off semi and more cup income,so the 'normal' gap is somewhat wider.

[needles]

The problem with that,needles,is that come April some S/T holders might realise they'd be better off just buying walk in tickets the following season.It's a complicated balancing act,which is why I've never criticised them over it and why I expressed the view earlier that the only sure fire way of increasing attendances lies in competing at the top (having said that,attendances may well start to rise because of a blossomoing Hughes).

Even under our present system,whereby tickets are a lot cheaper in advance,a S/T holder who can't attend all matches (maybe difficulty in attending night matches) might see value in individual tickets (both options involve paying in advance,but S/t 's more so).If the match by match option were taken,he or she might look at the fixture list ,and if it showed an unattractive fixture the week before Christmas,might decide to give that a miss.....and then there's the unexpecteds like weddings,etc.

It aint easy,I don't envy them.

I take your point, and it isn't straightforward, but buying football tickets isn't like planning a pension or picking a mortgage, I don't really care how much per game it works out or if the nominal cost of my Charlton home ticket is lower than the offer price, and I don;t think many of us do. If I get my ST for the same money a bloke in the next seat would get his by going match to match, it's worth it to me to stump out on convenience alone. I think the current set up is over-complicated and over-estimates the impact of factors such as you describe. For me anyway.

I'm wary of chucking in anecdotal evidence, but I do know of two blokes who walked out of the ticket office on a Saturday morning in protest about being asked to pay an extra few quid for buying on the day. They just wanted an afternoon out and went to Burton instead. A simpler,clearer system saves all that farting about, and feels more "customer friendly".

[froggg]

Was listening to 606 on Sunday, apparently the Germans have it right, Bayern Munich charge €8 a ticket and €100 for a season ticket. Think it was Stuttgart the most expensive at €12 a ticket.

Yes you need the quality of football still but that's how you sell a stadium out.

Also if you buy an away ticket, travel on the train to the game is free......imagine if we had that 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wub' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />