Dropping Attendences

[ramblur]

I take your point, and it isn't straightforward, but buying football tickets isn't like planning a pension or picking a mortgage, I don't really care how much per game it works out or if the nominal cost of my Charlton home ticket is lower than the offer price, and I don;t think many of us do. If I get my ST for the same money a bloke in the next seat would get his by going match to match, it's worth it to me to stump out on convenience alone. I think the current set up is over-complicated and over-estimates the impact of factors such as you describe. For me anyway.

I'm wary of chucking in anecdotal evidence, but I do know of two blokes who walked out of the ticket office on a Saturday morning in protest about being asked to pay an extra few quid for buying on the day. They just wanted an afternoon out and went to Burton instead. A simpler,clearer system saves all that farting about, and feels more "customer friendly".

Understand where you're coming from,but when times are hard I don't think you should come up with a system whereby some S/T holders might work out it would actually cost them less over the season to pay match by match.

[Guest]

I'd be surprised if our crowds have ever been this low at pride park, referring to cut graphs different ways is clutching at straws.

Our season ticket sales are down, and causal fans are not turning up in the numbers they were.

One of the reasons is that people have made their mind up after 4 years that either the manager/board or both are not good enough. They were promised competitive football and have become dissatisfied witht what they have seen within the past 4 years.

One way to bring the crowds back in is to continue the progress this season, but the longer we continue to be a team that can't compete within the top 6 the more the crowds will drop and we will fail to attract new fans to replace them with.

[needles]

Understand where you're coming from,but when times are hard I don't think you should come up with a system whereby some S/T holders might work out it would actually cost them less over the season to pay match by match.

Fair enough. The current system hasn't helped with the 3k missing supporters though. Although if total income is at worst stable, maybe they won't care. Much better day out with 30k in the ground though, and better day out means people are more likely to return.

[davenportram]

I'd be surprised if our crowds have ever been this low at pride park, referring to cut graphs different ways is clutching at straws.

Our season ticket sales are down, and causal fans are not turning up in the numbers they were.

03/04 22,199

04/05 25129

05/06 24165

06/07 25994

In 03/04 we dropped to where we are now after a couple of years out if the Prem (took us longer to drop to that level this time round)

04/05 was play off season attendances boosted during second half of season

05/06 started high after the playoff campaign the year before. Then dropped because we turned *****

06/07 promotion year but only managed 3000 more on average than this year.

I reckon we have just reached the natural level of support for a normal championship season for the club. Nothing more sinister than that.

[davenportram]

Understand where you're coming from,but when times are hard I don't think you should come up with a system whereby some S/T holders might work out it would actually cost them less over the season to pay match by match.

They already have that for families. 2 adult and 2 kids for £30 for some matches it would be cheaper for me to do that than get a season ticket - taking into account the possibility I will have to miss a few matches in the season due other commitments.

[Guest]

03/04 22,199

04/05 25129

05/06 24165

06/07 25994

In 03/04 we dropped to where we are now after a couple of years out if the Prem (took us longer to drop to that level this time round)

04/05 was play off season attendances boosted during second half of season

05/06 started high after the playoff campaign the year before. Then dropped because we turned *****

06/07 promotion year but only managed 3000 more on average than this year.

I reckon we have just reached the natural level of support for a normal championship season for the club. Nothing more sinister than that.

Wasn't 03/04 when we got took over by the 3 amigos? Following a poor season the previous year when we were battling relegation?

Yes this is the level for a championship club, but looking at all the trends it will continue to fall If we don't challenge for promotion. This is the only way to attract new or returning fans, and people who are not coming are blaming it on the current set up, well the ones I know anyway.

I wonder when the last time we stayed in this league for this long last was, either getting promoted or relegated, is this the 4th or 5th year under this tenure?

[davenportram]

Wasn't 03/04 when we got took over by the 3 amigos? Following a poor season the previous year when we were battling relegation?

Yes this is the level for a championship club, but looking at all the trends it will continue to fall If we don't challenge for promotion. This is the only way to attract new or returning fans, and people who are not coming are blaming it on the current set up, well the ones I know anyway.

I wonder when the last time we stayed in this league for this long last was, either getting promoted or relegated, is this the 4th or 5th year under this tenure?

We were relegated in 01/02

O2/03 attendences were 25k and finished 18th (not far from where we finished 08/09) but attendances dropped straight after that to where we are now. I think we did well to keep attendances up until now.

[mozza]

i'm going friday, but only because i got a reasonably priced ticket..

[Guest]

We were relegated in 01/02

O2/03 attendences were 25k and finished 18th (not far from where we finished 08/09) but attendances dropped straight after that to where we are now. I think we did well to keep attendances up until now.

Well we started of at a higher base when we came down, so yes we did do well to keep these fans, through clever marketing and not increasing prices for so long. Still doesn't get away from the fact though that another year in this league will see crowds decline further, hopefully not in the droves of the past few years, but having kept these fans it's a shame that we were unable to keep them.

[G STAR RAM]

Bang on mate,

I don't have a season ticket for various reasons, but its been great the last few years being able to give the lads a quick phonecall on a saturday morning and hop on a bus knowing its going to be around £30 for a ticket to the game that day.

Can't really afford it nowdays, your'e looking at 40-45 quid for a half decent seat with atmosphere. Rediculous.

Prices lower = Happy fans, and a smeg load more of 'em too.

The only seats with an atmosphere are in the East Stand and I have never seen a ticket for £40 in them seats

[G STAR RAM]

Well we've steadily improved at home to the point now where we've been unbeaten for seven games, not lost at home in two calendar months and all the while playing some very encouraging football too, what better time is there for a 'floater' to come and watch us? Yet during this time we've only peaked at 25,034 for Leeds, which is usually a gate of 30,000+.

Although we're not officially in a recession any more, the financial climate still doesn't lend itself to ticket prices for Championship football being consistently north of £25-30 and that is why fans are staying away in my opinion.

Pride Park is widely acknowledged as an expensive ground to visit.

Really? By who?

[ramblur]

They already have that for families. 2 adult and 2 kids for £30 for some matches it would be cheaper for me to do that than get a season ticket - taking into account the possibility I will have to miss a few matches in the season due other commitments.

"for some matches" is the bit that's confusing me.Are you saying that overall ,so far to date(taking into account missed matches), you would have been better off financially paying match by match, or just that on some occasions this would be the case? My point would only work if there was some degree of certainty that you could make savings.Ironically,the ditched Groupon adventure,because of the uncertainty of matches to be included at the outset would be less likely to mean fans ditching their tickets purely on financial grounds.

If the present system were retained and fans had noted religeously the various cheaper starting prices,you might have a problem with those who can't attend all matches (and start working out what it might have cost match by match)

[Scott_dcfc]

The only seats with an atmosphere are in the East Stand and I have never seen a ticket for £40 in them seats

Apologies, last time I checked for the game v Forest, and also for Leeds a seat In the East Stand upper was £40.

Just checked and its dropped down to £36 now.

Really? By who?

By somebody obviously you haven't spoken to.

[ramblur]

Fair enough. The current system hasn't helped with the 3k missing supporters though. Although if total income is at worst stable, maybe they won't care. Much better day out with 30k in the ground though, and better day out means people are more likely to return.

I agree.How can we find a way to fill the ground whilst still upping (or at least not letting it drop) overall income.The £10 and £12.50 Groupons from last season were obviously roaring successes (although the fixtures were fairly attractive).What happens if it goes up to £15,or £17.50? Was this ever tried?

[rammieib]

A few years ago Bradford made an offer that if they got about 10,000 (precise number I don't know) season tickets they would do them each for about £130 or such. Guess what - they got the required number of season ticket holders and there attendances are much higher. Shows cheaper prices work.

I would still like a deal where every seat for an adult is the same price in the stadium bought at any point in time but a season ticket is about 30% less. So simplistic. Make ticket prices reasonable - £20 for all games regardless of opposition, guarantee we would have 6-8000 more at games.

How many times have I or you looked at away tickets this season and thought - Leicester, 31 quid, not worth it, burnley, 30 quid, not worth it, Charlton £25 I'll go to that one. That five pound barrier there has physiologically taken me from a yes to a no.

I would love to know if the total revenue now from ticket sales and the total revenue from my model but additional revenue of having 120,000 fans attend games across a season would be higher or lower. Not to mention intangible benefits...

[uttoxram75]

Apologies, last time I checked for the game v Forest, and also for Leeds a seat In the East Stand upper was £40.

Just checked and its dropped down to £36 now.

By somebody obviously you haven't spoken to.

Leeds were indeed £40 in the East Stand week before the match. Got a Forest one yesterday in East Upper for £34 (+£1.50 booking fee). Chap on the phone reckons they'll be £45 after christmas if there's any left!

[ramblur]

A few years ago Bradford made an offer that if they got about 10,000 (precise number I don't know) season tickets they would do them each for about £130 or such. Guess what - they got the required number of season ticket holders and there attendances are much higher. Shows cheaper prices work.

I would still like a deal where every seat for an adult is the same price in the stadium bought at any point in time but a season ticket is about 30% less. So simplistic. Make ticket prices reasonable - £20 for all games regardless of opposition, guarantee we would have 6-8000 more at games.

How many times have I or you looked at away tickets this season and thought - Leicester, 31 quid, not worth it, burnley, 30 quid, not worth it, Charlton £25 I'll go to that one. That five pound barrier there has physiologically taken me from a yes to a no.

I would love to know if the total revenue now from ticket sales and the total revenue from my model but additional revenue of having 120,000 fans attend games across a season would be higher or lower. Not to mention intangible benefits...

Not easy to work out because you have the tricky problem of concessions.However,I tried this initial model (ignoring concessions,apart from free junior S/T holders):-

28000 average attendance,with 1000 free junior S/T's,18000 other S/T's and 9000 walk ins.Aim to match or better 10/11 match receipts of £5.551m ex vat. Based on £15/match for walk ins (£12.195 ex vat,assuming 23% vat).

Proceeds from the walk ins would be £2.524m,and for S/T's £3.534m (after 30% discount)-both figures ex vat.Total £6.058m,thus bettering 10/11 (which would have included a small amount of cup income.

Next problem is how to create concessions,so I decided to go for a 2 tier pricing,with most expensive at £20 and others at £15,both including vat.Now it's impossible to do any calculations because of the uncertainty over the numbers of seniors,juveniles etc;suffice to say that the extra 5 quids would at least give some leeway for creating concessions.

I don't think you could ever get away with charging the same for best and worst seats in the house.Under my model you could make the worst seats only available to walk ins (unless existing S/T holders particularly wanted to stay put).

I don't like complex arrangements like the current one for S/T's alone,as it makes it extremely difficult to work out what the effects of various tweaks might be-the simpler the better in my book.

Of course,one great way of solving the problem would be affordable safe standing,but on a larger scale than that proposed.If I've got the story right,one seat= 2 standing.You'd have to cover the capital cost of alterations,so 70% of current price for each stander might be reasonable.

[ramblur]

Sorry rammieib,realised I totally ignored your £20 across the board suggestion.If you used this model,with 30% discount to S/T holders,then the £6m would become £8m,giving rather more leeway to create concessions.Not convinced you could hit the 28000 average I targeted at this price however.We know that the £12.50 allocation for the Hull game last year,via Groupon,was gobbled up quickly,which might suggest £15 could be successfull.

[alexxxxx]

Would be interesting if it was £20 per game (£30 for forest/leicester/leeds) +£2 extra on the day... for any seat in the ground and what attendances you'd get.

People would know exactly how much it cost at least.

[Derbiean]

For tomorrow night's match this from the OS:

Derby are confident of being able to draw in a crowd of around 24,000 supporters for the game, with ticket sales healthy throughout this week.

The match will certainly pull in the Rams’ biggest midweek attendance of the season at Pride Park Stadium, and there’s anticipation has been building throughout the last few days.