curb Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 However the premier clubs are looking to get the championship big clubs promoted with their large attendances and good stadiums. That's a strange thing to say, i know they've stitched up football to suit themselves, but i can't see how they'd manage to get us promoted from 14th place above, say Blackpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Curb they cant decide who gets promoted.They assumed that clubs like Derby,Forest,Leicester,Leeds,Cardiff, Sheff.Wed would be up there knocking on the door.What do Blackpool,Burnley,Blackburn,Bolton and even Wigan bring to the Premier with their small attendances.Trouble is football doesn't work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Curb they cant decide who gets promoted.They assumed that clubs like Derby,Forest,Leicester,Leeds,Cardiff, Sheff.Wed would be up there knocking on the door.What do Blackpool,Burnley,Blackburn,Bolton and even Wigan bring to the Premier with their small attendances.Trouble is football doesn't work like that. Well the lattter had better footballing teams than the former, Wigan still do. How many players from the former clubs would get into the Wigan team? Wigan are currently are a bigger pull for players due to being in the PL. Most Championship stadiums are half empty these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Cumbrian that isn't the point.Obviously there is a gap in quality of teams because the clubs make lots of money in the premier,however the attendances of the clubs I mentioned are lower than the big championship clubs.Getting those clubs promoted would obviously raise more money for the Premier,should they not be able to survive the extra payments should help to get them back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Cumbrian that isn't the point.Obviously there is a gap in quality of teams because the clubs make lots of money in the premier,however the attendances of the clubs I mentioned are lower than the big championship clubs.Getting those clubs promoted would obviously raise more money for the Premier,should they not be able to survive the extra payments should help to get them back up. Why would it raise more clubs for the PL? In actual fact, Wigan have a high success rate of bringing in foreign players from Latin America and then selling them on to other PL clubs which then circulates around the PL. Not to mention the TV deals they stitch up over this way... Wigan are everybit as valuable for the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea as any other PL team.. An extra 5k a week in attendances isn't going to change that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Really? some of that may happen or not got feck all to do with what I'm talking about so carry on with your kite flying someone might be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I can't decide what it is you're talking about tbh, how do you know the Prem clubs want the bigger champ clubs promoted? And if they did, what could they do about it? I think it's just a presumption on your part. You could just as easily say the Prem clubs DON'T want the bigger clubs promoted because there's less chance of them upsetting their cosy little stitch up of the Champions league. Ie Wigan and such clubs know their place and are happy just sticking in there trialling players and feeding the top 4 with the better ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansea ram Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 But would you be prepared to pay premier prices. I was offered a Swansea v Liverpool ticket this week for £45.00. I just laughed at the fact someone would expect me to pay that much for ticket Derby v Cardiff ticket £14, hotel for the night £28.50. And i still got enough left for a pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Really? some of that may happen or not got feck all to do with what I'm talking about so carry on with your kite flying someone might be interested. My god you're a condascending fecker at times. I take it conversations in your house are quite one sided and not open to much questioning eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Why would it raise more clubs for the PL? In actual fact, Wigan have a high success rate of bringing in foreign players from Latin America and then selling them on to other PL clubs which then circulates around the PL. Not to mention the TV deals they stitch up over this way... Wigan are everybit as valuable for the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea as any other PL team.. An extra 5k a week in attendances isn't going to change that.. Wigan were actually able to have a go when Bruce was there too, and I bet their budget wasn't anywhere near most of their mid-table rivals at the time. Palacios and Valencia, two great finds at the time, plus getting Heskey to play his best football in years there. I hope they stumble across a real gem of a player and can sell him on to compete financially for once with atleast a few of the guys above them, they're only the odd player away from being safe each season (or near enough). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Personally I'd like to see some more of the so called 'big teams' (Villa this season I hope, after West Ham and Newcastle in previous) come down the ladder. It was the making of the Magpies last season, and it gave some different teams a chance, and I'm glad Swansea have really taken the chance they were given and thrived. Equally though, it pains me to see a team like Swansea, where maybe under a different set of circumstances it could have been us. Unfortunately, it does seem to be all about the "what if"s and "maybe"s - and we do seem to be doomed to 2nd tier football. Maybe just once I'd like to see us back where we were in my youth with the likes of Stimac, Asanovic, Eranio, Poom.. but not be making a total pigs ear of it. Lets have the Pride back in Pride Park - unlikely mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayram Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 The problem is, there's nothing to get excited about, you criticise the board and someone quite rightly points out that they have put in a lot of money to keep us stable (although not enough to actually improve us or make us feel we're going anywhere). From where we are now we'd need about 10 million to mount a serious challenge and then another 30 if it we got up, that's never going to happen. You criticise the manager and people point out he's done a reasonable job (although I'd say average to mediocre) with the resources available. You can't criticise the players because we know they're doing their best, they're just not really very good. So matchday comes round and we all sit there in silence watching our inevitable defeat to another no-mark tin pot club, or even when we do win there's a slight warm feeling (or was that just me), but we know it doesn't really matter much in the long run because we're not going up, and if we did go up we'd get battered every week. I reckon that's why the atmosphere's so flat now, it's just boring because it doesn't really matter any more. Generally in football it is the stitch up of the game by the 4 teams at the top of the Prem which is starting to affect us locally. The amazing thing for me is that there are still owners out there trying for golden ticket, if you do manage to get out of this division all you end up doing is trying to survive year in year out, the wages you have to pay to stay up there ensures that you end up in massive debt anyway. The Prem died for me about 10 years ago, I could see where it was heading way back when TBE eagle was in charge, and I think I've lost interest in the Rams as well now, it's so difficult to get interested in it any more. Couldn't agree more. There are a lot of us who are struggling to maintain interest I think. I hate feeling like it because I've followed the club through worse situations than the current one. It just feels like there is no real hope of anything changing for the better at board/managerial level, and the clubs current mindset seems to be to plod along slowly hoping that as Nigel tinkers with his team of triers somehow a squad of promotion winners will emerge. Also, looking at the bigger picture I increasingly ask myself what is the point following any club that isn't Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City? There is literally no hope of any other club outside those three winning the Premier League or even finishing in the top 3 under the current circumstances. The domestic cups are non events that only get won by the lesser clubs when the big boys decide not to bother with them and play their reserve teams, so the chances of cup success are just as remote as a top three Premier League finish for a club like ours. What is the point in following a club like ours these days? For my part having followed the Rams for 32 years I cannot walk away - the club is in my blood, but I made a decision some time ago that I would not attend home games or buy club merchandise again until there was a clear signs of the board actually taking the club forward. At the moment this is not happening so I remain a supporter from afar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Couldn't agree more. There are a lot of us who are struggling to maintain interest I think. I hate feeling like it because I've followed the club through worse situations than the current one. It just feels like there is no real hope of anything changing for the better at board/managerial level, and the clubs current mindset seems to be to plod along slowly hoping that as Nigel tinkers with his team of triers somehow a squad of promotion winners will emerge. Also, looking at the bigger picture I increasingly ask myself what is the point following any club that isn't Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City? There is literally no hope of any other club outside those three winning the Premier League or even finishing in the top 3 under the current circumstances. The domestic cups are non events that only get won by the lesser clubs when the big boys decide not to bother with them and play their reserve teams, so the chances of cup success are just as remote as a top three Premier League finish for a club like ours. What is the point in following a club like ours these days? For my part having followed the Rams for 32 years I cannot walk away - the club is in my blood, but I made a decision some time ago that I would not attend home games or buy club merchandise again until there was a clear signs of the board actually taking the club forward. At the moment this is not happening so I remain a supporter from afar. Exactly how I feel. I was wondering if the supporters these days who watch a lot of the Prem, have their favourite club while they're watching on Sky, and have their favourite bit of rough (us) for when they watch live football, thus they know the two aren't likely to ever be in contention, and they're not that bothered about us going up, because they've compartmented us into their fave Championship club. It's the only way it can make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I can't decide what it is you're talking about tbh, how do you know the Prem clubs want the bigger champ clubs promoted? And if they did, what could they do about it? I think it's just a presumption on your part. You could just as easily say the Prem clubs DON'T want the bigger clubs promoted because there's less chance of them upsetting their cosy little stitch up of the Champions league. Ie Wigan and such clubs know their place and are happy just sticking in there trialling players and feeding the top 4 with the better ones. You have to ask yourself why the Prem clubs more than doubled the parachute payments.They are not normally known for genererosity.I asked myself this and how it might affect us and how we might benefit.I happened to notice an article in "The Times"which commented on a report from the accountants,management cosultants and tax advisors Grant Thorntons.They explained what was going on and also produced a sort of blueprint on how championship clubs could survive in the Premier league.It all made good sense to me,and showed that the Prem wasn't resting on its larels and needed to look ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 With the side in the state it is now there is no reason to think we are "doomed" to an eternity in this division. Once we can cut out the drastic midseason form slumps that we seem to have we'll be a threat up the table. Anyone who makes the playoffs, no matter their current form, have a chance of going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Also, looking at the bigger picture I increasingly ask myself what is the point following any club that isn't Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City? There is literally no hope of any other club outside those three winning the Premier League or even finishing in the top 3 under the current circumstances. The domestic cups are non events that only get won by the lesser clubs when the big boys decide not to bother with them and play their reserve teams, so the chances of cup success are just as remote as a top three Premier League finish for a club like ours. What is the point in following a club like ours these days? Whats the point? The point is that success for Derby, whether it be winning promotion, getting into Europe or actually winning a trophy will mean 100 times more to our fans (and you) than winning the Prem/Champions League would do to a plastic Manu, Chelsea or City fan. You say you can't see it happening & granted, it looks a milion miles away at the minute - but football can change very dramatically very quickly. How many Norwich fans thought they'd be entering their second Prem season 3 years after getting beat 7-1 at home by Colchester in League One? How many QPR fans thought they'd ever return to the top division after getting beat by Vauxhall Motors in the FA Cup? Where were Stoke/Man City/Swansea 6,7,8 years ago? The truth is football is cyclical. Derby for the past 45 years have generally been absolutely brilliant or absolutely abject. Unusually for us, we're solidly mediocre at the moment & I can totally understand why fans are losing interest/getting annoyed. But the signs are there - in terms of the kids coming through, the improved results overall & the settled nature of the side. I'm convinced we're not far away & once everything clicks, there's no reason why in 2, 3 or 4 years we can't be doing what Swansea/Stoke have been doing or win a trophy like Portsmouth, Middlesborough or Leicester have done in the last 12 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Leeds City Ram I agree with you and its nice to hear somebody wanting it so much as you do.I do too but its got to happen soonish because I'm old.you say,however,theres no reason why not well there is a reason simply a lack of ambition.I'm not convinced and i'm not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Cheers. I don't think its a lack of ambition though - its a lack of cash! I'd be delighted if GSE splashed 5 million on a couple of proven players but it just isn't going to happen. Doesn't mean that supporting Derby is a lost cause though There are a number of sides recently that have steadily built to go up (without splashing the cash) - the signs I see suggest that we will be one of them eventually. In any case, throwing money at it is no guarantee of doing the job - look at dear old Lionel's spending spree in 92/93. It was only when Smith moulded a team in 95/96 - some young lads, some cheap under-rated players from elsewhere, that we went up. And stayed up. Like i said, I understand people's frustration. And its not helped by our nearest & dearest spending millions. I try to see the bigger picture - not easy when you get the likes of Peterboro giving us the runaround, granted. I don't know how old you are but if you were around in the 60's, its possible similiar things were being said then too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm liking the cut of your jib LCR, http://knifewallpapers.com/smilies/thumbs_up_smiley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Get the white thing in the net. Please dont say this the black football association will report you to the met, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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