Bris Vegas Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I just hate the concept of 'it's too early to go up' and 'we're not ready yet' Whatever happens if we got up with these players or any other of NPC standard I fully hope and expect half of them to be replaced.. I'd want the majority to be replaced, becuase there aren't any quality sides at this level.. I just want to see some good football and hopefully abit of foreign influence.. I'd love to have a squad like West Broms, Wigan or Swansea now in the PL.. The only way we'll ever get to see good football is to reach the PL and buy decent players from overseas.. Do I see that within the current set-up?.. Not a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 It's funny how fans complain about Clough taking too long to show improvement when he's got a tiny player budget to work with. He is trying to get young, lower league and Scottish players, mostly on the cheap, to compete with clubs with parachute payments and owners throwing money at it. If Clough got Derby into the top 6 with these odds stacked against us he'd be working a miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dx7778 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Pros of Playing in Champ: Playing Forest & Other Teams nearbyVery Unpredictable League, Can win against anyone and Lose against anyone, Atleast some Excitement in there.Can Churn out Youth and build them up for sales now that Relegation is not a Major ConcernNow that we are a established champ club, Build on your table rankings year by year.Cons of Missing out in PL (Assuming your talking abt Premier League) :Missing out on huge money and exposure if not taking a chance of getting promotedPlaying in front of a World class audience against world class oppositionsPlaying in the PL would attract a new fanbase+Merchandise+Football Talent from all over the worldFans get bored and attendences and revenues keep falling down if you remain in champ and not take a chance. Am sorry but i intend to point out that getting relegated to League 1 is certainly not an option. I would rather go up to the PL and get relegated again (Certainly not at 11 points) and be a Yo Yo club than stay mid table in the Champ and "Build on things" You may never know we could actually stick there like WBA after years of keeping on yo yoing. Btw who wants to miss out on that 48 Mil a year deal just by getting promoted? And who is pro or anti clough will not matter if he is given Money to go to the transfer market and get the right players. If he succeeds in atleast reaching playoffs he is a proven success if he fails atleast there wont be any clough supporters at all and we can find a decent replacement, The point is take a chance and give money to the man. If it works you stand to gain a huge financial windfall, Risks are part of business something derby owners should know since they are treating this as a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dx7778 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 We do lack ambition through out the club but we get to watch a team who genuinely battle for each other and it's a lot more tasteful than a team of mercenaries. We're not going to get promoted within the current set up - the mind set of everyone at the club needs to change, we're not going to experience that any time soon! Board out? Clough out? Better the devil you know, I think there is a ton of managers out there that would be able to relegate us with ease on our budget and on the other end, think there is a lot of owners that would be able to properly construct a train wreck. Also could get taken over by billionaires and have a world class manager one in - as heavy as I doubt that mind! With regards to ppl fearing we may have another PJ, It cant happen if the Owners have a strict leash on finances. You have two options, A - You now know what clough can put in the table as a performance and you have some amount of predictability or B- take a chance in bringing a tough seasoned manager from overseas with some leash released by the owners in the finances. But option B can happen only if you given some amount of free rein to clough and find out if he is really capable of getting the desired results. Regarding your post of getting a Takeover, Mind you Billionaires are excellent Business men. They will look at businesses which show ambition in the pitch and then only the other facilities. Although we both know thats not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 And its STILL better than going to see the one eyed turds down the road... Is it cold in our shadow.....? X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I just hate the concept of 'it's too early to go up' and 'we're not ready yet' Whatever happens if we got up with these players or any other of NPC standard I fully hope and expect half of them to be replaced.. I'd want the majority to be replaced, becuase there aren't any quality sides at this level.. I just want to see some good football and hopefully abit of foreign influence.. I'd love to have a squad like West Broms, Wigan or Swansea now in the PL.. The only way we'll ever get to see good football is to reach the PL and buy decent players from overseas.. Do I see that within the current set-up?.. Not a chance. With Nigel in charge, I fear it's always going to be a case of not being ready. I ask myself if Nigel could take us up...the answer is yes, he could. We could easily fluke a top 6 finish. In 2007 we fluked 3rd.... Do I honestly believe though that we'd survive in the Premier League? Not at all. I'm confident we'd hit 11 points, but I just can't see it working for us. Clough seems to keep the same team on for at least 70 minutes, whatever happens. We play 4-5-1 in hope of a draw at Craven Cottage, and after Fulham inexplicably fail to score, Berbatov breaks the dead lock in the 60th minute, and then we crumble and concede twice more. Ten minutes later, we take off Conor Doyle (or the equivalent at the time) and bring on the winger that probably should have started in the first place. I can see it now. Clough's love of "triers" has actually done us much good. There's a genuine desire to get in the team that has improved us and every player wants to be there. Gone are 4-1 defeats at home to Ssausagehorpe. The culture at the club has completely changed, and I really really believe that Clough's refusal to play players who don't do as told has stopped the rot that began when Jim Smith left, with our only good managers since not having had long enough to solve. We've built our foundations on the rock. That's good. But you don't get the same bloke who planted the foundations of your house to paint it and design the furniture. We need a Brendan Rogers-type figure if we're actually going to push on. Someone who cares about the academy still, someone who still values the hard work, but someone with a radical, modern footballing ethos that will actually get us somewhere. I'm fed up with us away from home. I really am. "We'll always try to get two up front at home, when we can" - why!? Why say this? Why get it in to these young players' minds that away matches are fundamentally different to home matches? Away matches, home matches...it's still a match of 22 players of Championship quality. You go to London Road and you try and score as many goals as you can. Get the white thing in the net. It's not tough. It's every bit as winnable as playing Peterborough at home. And every match is winnable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It's just fecking boring, the whole 'matchday experience' is like pulling teeth. The whole club has settled for mediocroty. Owners, manager, players, fans, what's up with you all? It doesn't matter though, who cares if we lose to Peterboro, we're not going down, not going up, who fecking cares? I agree with this. Part of me wants us to go down, at least we'd have something to aim for, something to get excited about maybe challenging for promotion in League 1. We've just reached a stage where it's been the same season after season for too long now, im bored with it, bored with going to the same grounds every year. Bored with knowing what's gunna happen before the seasons even started, something needs to change. We cant even have a cup run to get excited about, our existence as a club is just pointless at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Part of me wants us to go down, at least we'd have something to aim for, something to get excited about maybe challenging for promotion in League 1. I said this before, I was told I was mad. Getting out-classed at home to Doncaster in front of a 75% full indetikit stadium with nothing to be heard but the players shouting, I was thinking how jealous I was of Norwich fans packed in to some Victorian terrace in Yeovil or whatever having an absolute wail of a time as the third goal smashes the back of the old-fashioned net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 C'mon Dawn, if you're venturing out of the banter thread you need to actually have input. These tend to be genuine concerns and ramblings if die hard Rams fans. Forest might have a bit of happiness out of potential foreign investment but you've been here and worse. And you haven't gone anywhere yet. I've read LTLF and seen some right suicidal threads. I don't get any joy. I know every club has fans that get fed up at some point. Laughing today, crying tomorrow. Football is swings and roundabouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I said this before, I was told I was mad. Getting out-classed at home to Doncaster in front of a 75% full indetikit stadium with nothing to be heard but the players shouting, I was thinking how jealous I was of Norwich fans packed in to some Victorian terrace in Yeovil or whatever having an absolute wail of a time as the third goal smashes the back of the old-fashioned net. Yes that is mad......try dreaming about a rickety old timber and corrugated iron stadium as the fifth goal hits the back of the arsenal net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Yes that is mad......try dreaming about a rickety old timber and corrugated iron stadium as the fifth goal hits the back of the arsenal net. In your memories, in my dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I agree with this. Part of me wants us to go down, at least we'd have something to aim for, something to get excited about maybe challenging for promotion in League 1. We've just reached a stage where it's been the same season after season for too long now, im bored with it, bored with going to the same grounds every year. Bored with knowing what's gunna happen before the seasons even started, something needs to change. We cant even have a cup run to get excited about, our existence as a club is just pointless at the moment. The problem is, there's nothing to get excited about, you criticise the board and someone quite rightly points out that they have put in a lot of money to keep us stable (although not enough to actually improve us or make us feel we're going anywhere). From where we are now we'd need about 10 million to mount a serious challenge and then another 30 if it we got up, that's never going to happen. You criticise the manager and people point out he's done a reasonable job (although I'd say average to mediocre) with the resources available. You can't criticise the players because we know they're doing their best, they're just not really very good. So matchday comes round and we all sit there in silence watching our inevitable defeat to another no-mark tin pot club, or even when we do win there's a slight warm feeling (or was that just me), but we know it doesn't really matter much in the long run because we're not going up, and if we did go up we'd get battered every week. I reckon that's why the atmosphere's so flat now, it's just boring because it doesn't really matter any more. Generally in football it is the stitch up of the game by the 4 teams at the top of the Prem which is starting to affect us locally. The amazing thing for me is that there are still owners out there trying for golden ticket, if you do manage to get out of this division all you end up doing is trying to survive year in year out, the wages you have to pay to stay up there ensures that you end up in massive debt anyway. The Prem died for me about 10 years ago, I could see where it was heading way back when TBE eagle was in charge, and I think I've lost interest in the Rams as well now, it's so difficult to get interested in it any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dx7778 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I know its Difficult to get promoted especially with no money to back you up. But there is something called Young spirit. A good Manager Unleashes it rather than keep it bottled. I see on multiple occasions that he has criticized Hendrick, He has not used Bennett, Not used a couple of U21 players who are in brilliant form at the moment except Hughes and not kept the seniors on there toes. A young player will not know fear and will try to impress. He may fail but if comes good the energy will run throughout the team, Something that clough isnt doing now. I see that is the only option for him this season to find any success. Use these Players away from home where you know the fixture is tricky and put your best team at home. Either that or give him money this transfer window and see if he achieves anything within Dec 2013. If he doesnt send him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 The problem is, there's nothing to get excited about, you criticise the board and someone quite rightly points out that they have put in a lot of money to keep us stable (although not enough to actually improve us or make us feel we're going anywhere). From where we are now we'd need about 10 million to mount a serious challenge and then another 30 if it we got up, that's never going to happen. You criticise the manager and people point out he's done a reasonable job (although I'd say average to mediocre) with the resources available. You can't criticise the players because we know they're doing their best, they're just not really very good. So matchday comes round and we all sit there in silence watching our inevitable defeat to another no-mark tin pot club, or even when we do win there's a slight warm feeling (or was that just me), but we know it doesn't really matter much in the long run because we're not going up, and if we did go up we'd get battered every week. I reckon that's why the atmosphere's so flat now, it's just boring because it doesn't really matter any more. Generally in football it is the stitch up of the game by the 4 teams at the top of the Prem which is starting to affect us locally. The amazing thing for me is that there are still owners out there trying for golden ticket, if you do manage to get out of this division all you end up doing is trying to survive year in year out, the wages you have to pay to stay up there ensures that you end up in massive debt anyway. The Prem died for me about 10 years ago, I could see where it was heading way back when TBE eagle was in charge, and I think I've lost interest in the Rams as well now, it's so difficult to get interested in it any more. There has been one important change that has come in recently.Now I know not everybody likes it,but in theory it should favour teams like us.The umbrella payments are now 48 million over 4 years plus 30-40million you can make in the premier league.If you make the necessary effort with sufficient investment to gain promotion getting relegated can be a positive.Spend the money wisely and we could be better off than many less supported Premier sides and make a better effort with the next promotion.As its only just come in its too early to see the effects,but in theory it should work for ambitious clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Sorry about my bad layout and it should be parachute payments not umbrella.I'm having a bad day as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I don't see how that will be better for us, it'll just mean the clubs coming down should go straight back up, making it even less likely that we get promoted (if that's possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 The way I see it we are years from promotion and relegation too. I don't agree with that. What are the pros and cons of this in your mind ? Footballwise, moneywise and otherwise. So answering that would be Pointless, Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I don't see how that will be better for us, it'll just mean the clubs coming down should go straight back up, making it even less likely that we get promoted (if that's possible). As I said its early in the scheme yet,but that wont always be the case.It depends on the state of the club,and their capability to get things right first time.My guess is that not all three will go back up first time which gives an ambitious club a chance.Just a point if the relegated clubs are in a financial mess they may not be able to rebuild in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 an ambitious club Hmm, therein lies the problem........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Now Now Curb when I say anything like that I get crucified.However the premier clubs are looking to get the championship big clubs promoted with their large attendances and good stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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