basilrobbie

Gibson's involvement is the weirdest bit of the whole saga. Not so much that he chose to get involved, more that the EFL allowed him to be quite as central to it all as he appears to be. 
 
The sooner we get an independent regulator that isn't beholden to vested interests, the better.

I do hope that Nixon is wrong about this, for a number of reasons :
1) I don't think you have a hope in hell of winning. Wigan tried this argument and got  short shrift. And there was a much stronger causal link between their problems and COVID than you can argue
2) if you are citing COVID as the primary argument, it's just not true, is it? The decisions that led to your current situation may have been compounded by COVID, but they weren't caused by it
3) this just plays into the "Gibson" argument (for want of a better phrase), that seeks to depict you as a club trying to wriggle off a hook instead of accepting you have been caught fair and square. Whether it is fair or not is a separate issue - it just LOOKS really bad. I can understand that goodwill is not your main worry though
As a Blackpool fan who has a vested interest in all this, I sympathise with those of you who just wants this resolved, along with Reading and anyone else who is in the dock for these sorts of offence. Lots of people outside your fan base feel the same way.
The EFL are supposed to be fighting for their lives at the moment, and trying to make themselves seem relevant in the context of the fan led review.  This dithering, with all the opacity that goes with it, is not fair on any of us. Hopefully, it will be fatal for them, because they long ago forfeited the right to run the competitions they are responsible for.
 
 

In what way were we cutting costs? Post lampard we signed rooney on huge wages, and almost over 10 million for bieliek and jozwiak. and please don't come to me saying it was in installments, you still have to pay it.
I JUST CANNOT BELIEVE people have actually brought the COVID BS. it is unbelievable to me people are that naive, and it's naive to think the authorities will be that way inclined too. we are the ONLY club that has gone into admin "because of covid", just happens that we were pissing away money the years before that - but that has nothing to do with it! It is like when we were the only club in the country to not sell season tickets "because of covid", you ever think there is more to it? it is widely laughed at across the football world that we are blaming it on covid.
for the love of god people, wake up! I am sick to death of all this off field nonsense and defending people that have no right to be defended. the club has been run into the ground, stop making excuses for them.

Mods, please move/merge or whatever as you see fit.
I saw the thread on the Rams Trust but as it was on another board I can't post on it. I wanted to offer some views though.
 
I don't know anyone at RT, although on behalf of my Supporters Trust (Blackpool) I did reach out to them recently to offer any help they feel we can usefully offer.
The point of this though is that I was struck by how many people didn't seem to know what marked a Trust out as being different and the number who thought an Internet forum could be a substitute.
Trusts are democratic, for one thing, and if you are a Member you can vote for who represents you and have an input into the policies of the organisation. If your Trust is like ours it is an organisation with clear objectives, a constitution and is committed to reinvesting any money it raises for the betterment of Members in particular and the fan base in general. Plus, as Jim pointed out, you have a conduit into your club, a sounding board for the Administrator and an organisation that can have an input into national policy (like the fan-led review). All supported by hundreds of hours of mostly unpaid effort by volunteers - not bad for £2.
Can any Internet forum match that? I doubt it. Anyone posting on here speaks for themselves, and nobody else. It's a useful barometer of a slice of supporter opinion - but only a slice. If your fan base is like ours then a large proportion never post on here and I'll wager a fair number have never heard of it.
More importantly, there will never be a more important time to be involved in and have a voice in your Trust. I think Tracey Crouch will draw back from insisting on mandatory supporter representation on club Boards. But I do think she will be bullish on creating golden shares for supporters as a form of veto on some issues. And that will almost certainly be vested in the Trust.
I've no idea of the history of RT, how it runs or anything else. But it is going to be the pre-eminent vehicle for representation as we go forward, and if you're not a Member you can't affect what it does.
 
Robbie
 
 

Mods, please move/merge or whatever as you see fit.
I saw the thread on the Rams Trust but as it was on another board I can't post on it. I wanted to offer some views though.
 
I don't know anyone at RT, although on behalf of my Supporters Trust (Blackpool) I did reach out to them recently to offer any help they feel we can usefully offer.
The point of this though is that I was struck by how many people didn't seem to know what marked a Trust out as being different and the number who thought an Internet forum could be a substitute.
Trusts are democratic, for one thing, and if you are a Member you can vote for who represents you and have an input into the policies of the organisation. If your Trust is like ours it is an organisation with clear objectives, a constitution and is committed to reinvesting any money it raises for the betterment of Members in particular and the fan base in general. Plus, as Jim pointed out, you have a conduit into your club, a sounding board for the Administrator and an organisation that can have an input into national policy (like the fan-led review). All supported by hundreds of hours of mostly unpaid effort by volunteers - not bad for £2.
Can any Internet forum match that? I doubt it. Anyone posting on here speaks for themselves, and nobody else. It's a useful barometer of a slice of supporter opinion - but only a slice. If your fan base is like ours then a large proportion never post on here and I'll wager a fair number have never heard of it.
More importantly, there will never be a more important time to be involved in and have a voice in your Trust. I think Tracey Crouch will draw back from insisting on mandatory supporter representation on club Boards. But I do think she will be bullish on creating golden shares for supporters as a form of veto on some issues. And that will almost certainly be vested in the Trust.
I've no idea of the history of RT, how it runs or anything else. But it is going to be the pre-eminent vehicle for representation as we go forward, and if you're not a Member you can't affect what it does.
 
Robbie
 
 

Mods, please move/merge or whatever as you see fit.
I saw the thread on the Rams Trust but as it was on another board I can't post on it. I wanted to offer some views though.
 
I don't know anyone at RT, although on behalf of my Supporters Trust (Blackpool) I did reach out to them recently to offer any help they feel we can usefully offer.
The point of this though is that I was struck by how many people didn't seem to know what marked a Trust out as being different and the number who thought an Internet forum could be a substitute.
Trusts are democratic, for one thing, and if you are a Member you can vote for who represents you and have an input into the policies of the organisation. If your Trust is like ours it is an organisation with clear objectives, a constitution and is committed to reinvesting any money it raises for the betterment of Members in particular and the fan base in general. Plus, as Jim pointed out, you have a conduit into your club, a sounding board for the Administrator and an organisation that can have an input into national policy (like the fan-led review). All supported by hundreds of hours of mostly unpaid effort by volunteers - not bad for £2.
Can any Internet forum match that? I doubt it. Anyone posting on here speaks for themselves, and nobody else. It's a useful barometer of a slice of supporter opinion - but only a slice. If your fan base is like ours then a large proportion never post on here and I'll wager a fair number have never heard of it.
More importantly, there will never be a more important time to be involved in and have a voice in your Trust. I think Tracey Crouch will draw back from insisting on mandatory supporter representation on club Boards. But I do think she will be bullish on creating golden shares for supporters as a form of veto on some issues. And that will almost certainly be vested in the Trust.
I've no idea of the history of RT, how it runs or anything else. But it is going to be the pre-eminent vehicle for representation as we go forward, and if you're not a Member you can't affect what it does.
 
Robbie
 
 

The other way of looking at it is that he is relatively objective and professionally well placed to form judgements. How many fans can say the same?
I don't really understand the vitriol, given that through his Podcast he does rather more to inform you an your own club management has historically done. He's also better placed to perceive how your club are regarded than you are (understandably, it's not a criticism per se). Do you not think that there is a strong element of you not wanting to hear the message?

I can see AN issue, but maybe not the one you see.
In Blackpool's case, one of the issues was that the EFL didn't know their own rules on retrospective application of the Owners & Directors Test, and falsely claimed that they couldn't be applied in the case of a rape conviction. It was simple incompetence, and I believe that the Head of Governance then may be the same guy who is advising Parry now. I wouldn't have much faith in his ability, but I don't think there is anything sinister about it. The issue for me is that they aren't up to the regulatory job, and don't fancy doing it anyway. 
 
 
 

So it should. But that would be because the system is fatally flawed, owners behave very stupidly to try to mitigate the worst aspects of it and the EFL has neither the will nor the wherewithal to deal with them or the EPL. No conspiracy, just a catalogue of incompetence.
I don't think Morris was the worst there has been. He's pretty benign when measured against Oyston, Dale, Anderson or the chancer who got hold of WIgan. But he is definitely one of the clumsiest.

I can see AN issue, but maybe not the one you see.
In Blackpool's case, one of the issues was that the EFL didn't know their own rules on retrospective application of the Owners & Directors Test, and falsely claimed that they couldn't be applied in the case of a rape conviction. It was simple incompetence, and I believe that the Head of Governance then may be the same guy who is advising Parry now. I wouldn't have much faith in his ability, but I don't think there is anything sinister about it. The issue for me is that they aren't up to the regulatory job, and don't fancy doing it anyway. 
 
 
 

So it should. But that would be because the system is fatally flawed, owners behave very stupidly to try to mitigate the worst aspects of it and the EFL has neither the will nor the wherewithal to deal with them or the EPL. No conspiracy, just a catalogue of incompetence.
I don't think Morris was the worst there has been. He's pretty benign when measured against Oyston, Dale, Anderson or the chancer who got hold of WIgan. But he is definitely one of the clumsiest.

So it should. But that would be because the system is fatally flawed, owners behave very stupidly to try to mitigate the worst aspects of it and the EFL has neither the will nor the wherewithal to deal with them or the EPL. No conspiracy, just a catalogue of incompetence.
I don't think Morris was the worst there has been. He's pretty benign when measured against Oyston, Dale, Anderson or the chancer who got hold of WIgan. But he is definitely one of the clumsiest.

That's the best answer I have seen. 
 
I do see that people can, and do, hold all these views at once. But without Morris's behaviour there would be no interest from Maguire or regulatory action from the EFL. All roads lead back to him. He bet YOUR ranch on black and came up red. 
If we want to truly widen the argument, Morris would not have behaved as he did if the distribution of TV monies were not so grossly inequitable. And that is a crime that a lot of people had a hand in committing.
 

So, according to you :
1. KM points out a demonstrable fact
2. the EFL tries to exploit it
3. the EFL then tries to rig the process
 
and yet you still blame him?
As for the rest of it, in my view separating off your main asset as a device to get round rules governing spending is not sensible, acceptable or anything other than an existential threat to the long term health of the club. And Mel Morris should be ashamed of himself for doing it. As an outsider, I find the fact that there isn't more anger about that very odd. I obviously need to stick around to improve my understanding. ?
 
 

So, according to you :
1. KM points out a demonstrable fact
2. the EFL tries to exploit it
3. the EFL then tries to rig the process
 
and yet you still blame him?
As for the rest of it, in my view separating off your main asset as a device to get round rules governing spending is not sensible, acceptable or anything other than an existential threat to the long term health of the club. And Mel Morris should be ashamed of himself for doing it. As an outsider, I find the fact that there isn't more anger about that very odd. I obviously need to stick around to improve my understanding. ?
 
 

The other way of looking at it is that he is relatively objective and professionally well placed to form judgements. How many fans can say the same?
I don't really understand the vitriol, given that through his Podcast he does rather more to inform you an your own club management has historically done. He's also better placed to perceive how your club are regarded than you are (understandably, it's not a criticism per se). Do you not think that there is a strong element of you not wanting to hear the message?

The other way of looking at it is that he is relatively objective and professionally well placed to form judgements. How many fans can say the same?
I don't really understand the vitriol, given that through his Podcast he does rather more to inform you an your own club management has historically done. He's also better placed to perceive how your club are regarded than you are (understandably, it's not a criticism per se). Do you not think that there is a strong element of you not wanting to hear the message?

You make some interesting points Pete, as does Crewton.
Starting with your last point, in a perfect world the regulatory regime would be far more forensic and targeted than it is. It is one of the reasons why Tracey Crouch's work is so important ; the framework we have is not fit for purpose. And that is compounded by the breathtaking ineptitude of the body that has control over it. This is where I depart from Crewton - I completely understand his frustrations with the EFL (more on that in a minute). But I think it is just incompetence, rather than anything more sinister.
I actually think your club is suffering more than it has to because the EFL knows its regulatory powers are under threat. At my club, our frustration towards them stemmed from what we saw as a wilful refusal to take ANY action, despite overwhelming evidence that they should. I think the pendulum has swung in that they are now trying to be proactive without having the skills wherewithal and general political nous to do that properly.  They are struggling to show that they are relevant - but that ship has long sailed, I hope.
I think what is really needed now is a rapid and clear conclusion, for everybody's sake. Your new owners might be unknown, at present, but every day that this lingers on makes their job harder when they come in.  And I think your administrators should have considerations like that at the front of their minds, and be acting accordingly. I have my doubts about them doing this as they should.
Crewton, I don't feel berated, I feel as though we are having a civilised discussion from very different viewpoints.  Your case feels especially poignant for me ; I started watching live football in 1968 and what I loved about that era was that provincial clubs like Derby County could legitimately aspire to be Champions of England. I watched you win 3-2 at Bloomfield Road in your promotion season in my early days and it was completely enthralling. Memories like that count for a lot.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I do hope that Nixon is wrong about this, for a number of reasons :
1) I don't think you have a hope in hell of winning. Wigan tried this argument and got  short shrift. And there was a much stronger causal link between their problems and COVID than you can argue
2) if you are citing COVID as the primary argument, it's just not true, is it? The decisions that led to your current situation may have been compounded by COVID, but they weren't caused by it
3) this just plays into the "Gibson" argument (for want of a better phrase), that seeks to depict you as a club trying to wriggle off a hook instead of accepting you have been caught fair and square. Whether it is fair or not is a separate issue - it just LOOKS really bad. I can understand that goodwill is not your main worry though
As a Blackpool fan who has a vested interest in all this, I sympathise with those of you who just wants this resolved, along with Reading and anyone else who is in the dock for these sorts of offence. Lots of people outside your fan base feel the same way.
The EFL are supposed to be fighting for their lives at the moment, and trying to make themselves seem relevant in the context of the fan led review.  This dithering, with all the opacity that goes with it, is not fair on any of us. Hopefully, it will be fatal for them, because they long ago forfeited the right to run the competitions they are responsible for.
 
 

Gibson's involvement is the weirdest bit of the whole saga. Not so much that he chose to get involved, more that the EFL allowed him to be quite as central to it all as he appears to be. 
 
The sooner we get an independent regulator that isn't beholden to vested interests, the better.

Gibson's involvement is the weirdest bit of the whole saga. Not so much that he chose to get involved, more that the EFL allowed him to be quite as central to it all as he appears to be. 
 
The sooner we get an independent regulator that isn't beholden to vested interests, the better.

Gibson's involvement is the weirdest bit of the whole saga. Not so much that he chose to get involved, more that the EFL allowed him to be quite as central to it all as he appears to be. 
 
The sooner we get an independent regulator that isn't beholden to vested interests, the better.

Gibson's involvement is the weirdest bit of the whole saga. Not so much that he chose to get involved, more that the EFL allowed him to be quite as central to it all as he appears to be. 
 
The sooner we get an independent regulator that isn't beholden to vested interests, the better.

I do hope that Nixon is wrong about this, for a number of reasons :
1) I don't think you have a hope in hell of winning. Wigan tried this argument and got  short shrift. And there was a much stronger causal link between their problems and COVID than you can argue
2) if you are citing COVID as the primary argument, it's just not true, is it? The decisions that led to your current situation may have been compounded by COVID, but they weren't caused by it
3) this just plays into the "Gibson" argument (for want of a better phrase), that seeks to depict you as a club trying to wriggle off a hook instead of accepting you have been caught fair and square. Whether it is fair or not is a separate issue - it just LOOKS really bad. I can understand that goodwill is not your main worry though
As a Blackpool fan who has a vested interest in all this, I sympathise with those of you who just wants this resolved, along with Reading and anyone else who is in the dock for these sorts of offence. Lots of people outside your fan base feel the same way.
The EFL are supposed to be fighting for their lives at the moment, and trying to make themselves seem relevant in the context of the fan led review.  This dithering, with all the opacity that goes with it, is not fair on any of us. Hopefully, it will be fatal for them, because they long ago forfeited the right to run the competitions they are responsible for.
 
 

Gibson's involvement is the weirdest bit of the whole saga. Not so much that he chose to get involved, more that the EFL allowed him to be quite as central to it all as he appears to be. 
 
The sooner we get an independent regulator that isn't beholden to vested interests, the better.