Stive Pesley

A few things:
Putin's public annoucement he's put nukes on high alert - it's a bluff, and it's because he's losing. The ultimate "I'll set my dad on you"
Resistance from Ukraine has been awe inspiring.
Yes we can debate how well "the west" has responded, but it has been largely united and effective.
We can debate to an extent how we got here, but I'm not havin any of the "brought it on ourselves by not being nice to Russia who just wanted all it's former soviet republics to have pro-russian puppet governments"
This war is far more than i expected, i honestly thought he'd just annex two more of Ukraine's provinces (and that the west would let him). Putin might still get a ceasefire that gives him the 2 provinces, but to end with that after his rhetoric would be a massive defeat.
Having failed in their initial offensives, this could last a long time, and be very ugly. There is going to be a lot of suffering. Putin must be defeated. To not do so after this would be unthinkable. This is not an attack on territory, or about a regeme change. This is an attack on democracy, self determination, freedom and we have a duty to fight against that.
There are ways we can help Ukraine, humaintarian efforts or donations.
Glory to Ukraine.
 

One of the problems the western media have is that if they paint a broader balanced picture  - then they would have to offer a counter argument - and , by definition, that would have them appear to be justifying the hostile invasion of Ukraine and the needless slaughter and destruction that war brings
The media on both sides should just be pleading for diplomacy and begging for an end to war. It doesn't actually matter who is wrong or right. No one ever went to war and killed another man because they believed themselves to be the baddies

One of the problems the western media have is that if they paint a broader balanced picture  - then they would have to offer a counter argument - and , by definition, that would have them appear to be justifying the hostile invasion of Ukraine and the needless slaughter and destruction that war brings
The media on both sides should just be pleading for diplomacy and begging for an end to war. It doesn't actually matter who is wrong or right. No one ever went to war and killed another man because they believed themselves to be the baddies

One of the problems the western media have is that if they paint a broader balanced picture  - then they would have to offer a counter argument - and , by definition, that would have them appear to be justifying the hostile invasion of Ukraine and the needless slaughter and destruction that war brings
The media on both sides should just be pleading for diplomacy and begging for an end to war. It doesn't actually matter who is wrong or right. No one ever went to war and killed another man because they believed themselves to be the baddies

I have huge respect for your intimate knowledge and historical perspective. I can’t and wouldn’t want to gain say your contentions. I’d only throw in to the mix that “Ukrainians”  expressed a wish to join NATO. In the same breath we could say the Scots via the SNP wanted to remain in the EU. Hitler also felt Austria and the Sudetenland were part of greater Germany.
Perspective and the actions taken from those different perspectives by different orders tell me a lot. 
 

Thank goodness it was only a few word. ?
Well constructed and informative post however, I don’t quite understand two points you have made:
1) Why is it relevant that 7 other states have integrated back into the CIS trading block? If Ukraine had chosen to do so then there wouldn’t really being an issue but they haven’t 
2) The two areas you have quoted may well have voted to rejoin Russia but how does that justify the full invasion of Ukraine?

Very good post in many respects and there is a lot I'd agree with there.  But I can't agree that Putin is not a despot.  If he is not then I don't know what a despot is. 
Look at how he came to power in Russia, how he has enriched himself (he is a billionaire on a government salary) and his friends.  Look at the grip he has on internal security in Russia, the unrelenting propaganda machine that is the Russian state media and the ridiculous sham elections where he picks the candidates. What happens to his political opponents? Yes he has his supporters and many of the older generation like his style of 'strong' leadership. But  Is it safe for anyone to criticize Putin in Russia?  I'd say Putin is the archetypal despot.

Is it not possible to be evil and rational at the same time?

There's only one person/country that has invaded another and started killing innocent people 

I'm not going to get dragged into too much of this because I have family directly involved but I thought I would offer a few words that might help some understand the perspective from the other side.
- Putin is not a despot, he is not in this for personal gain or infamy. He rationally believes that Ukraine was ripped away from Russia at the break up of the Soviet Union. Kiev is the historic founding of the Russian people, Russians view Ukraine as their cousins in much the same way that Scots and Irish do - they are Slavs by 'tribe' in the same way that Scots are Celts. BTW - I do recognize that Ukraine is a divided country itself and many Catholic Ukrainians (in the West of the country) would not share this view. Ukraine has been independent since 1991 but this is not a country with thousands of years of independence, for most of it's history it has been a part of Russia, Austro-Hungary or Poland. Again, I repeat, this does not entitle invasion but Putin is merely of the belief he needs to reset things to what they were.
- Consequently, Putin is repeatedly saying that what he is doing is for Mother Russia. I don't say I agree with it, but it's not as simple as the 'evil regime' some in the West are trying to put on him. Back in Russia he is very popular and has done (without doubt) a huge amount to lift up the standard of living of nearly all Russians. Moscow, and many other cities, are great places to live and the support networks that most Russians enjoy put ours to shame (schools, local councils, healthcare etc).
- This goes back to the breakup of the Berlin Wall, at the very latest. At that time the Soviet Union was dissolved, and the Russians were largely humilated in the years after with the ways they were forced to (for example) decommission nuclear weapons unilaterally in return for aid. And, as Putin says, 'even this was not enough for the West' as they then funded seperatists in Chechnya, Georgia and other areas. The West, largely the US, has interfered in Russian domestic matters consistently while at the very same time castigating Russia for doing the same (e.g. Syria).
- Without doubt, and again not trying to excuse anyone, Russians are endemically paranoid - and have been way before the WWII (or the Great Patriotic War as they call it) and are bathed in the belief that the actions of their fathers (and let's not forget without their laying down 35 million lives it is pretty clear the Second World War would not have ended when it did - at least) should not go to waste. Churchill famously described Russia as a riddle inside a mystery inside an enigma (or something maybe not in that order) and the West has repeatedly failed to see this over the past thirty years, consitently failed to take the opportunity to calm the situation and understand it from the other side.
- The West has systemically tried to undermine Russia since the Berlin Wall dissolved. Of course, in later years, Russia has reacted to this (Salisbury poisionings, election interfering etc) with clear hostility but don't forget, it's not too long since British spies were caught laying cameras outside influential locations in Moscow.
- There is a unique moment here for Putin to act. America is weak, the world is still reeling from the pandemic, Germany is in political transition, the US and the UK have (let's keep it polite) leaders that will not be remembered as the greatest to serve their country. And alongside this, Russia has been told to step back on watch the US try to control the Middle East (Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan) among other activities. If you are interested in American foreign policy look up a concept called 'manifest destiny' - Russians reject the American belief that they have the right to go imposing their views on other people in their countries - even President Xi of China said the same thing the other day. Now when Russia says they want to 'integrate' Ukraine back under their control (again, let's not forget that Ukraine has declared intent to join NATO, to have NATO military right up against Russian borders - for a country that remembers being invaded in 1941, like it or not, this is just not acceptable so Russia sees this as the best way to prevent that) there was no reasonable way to look at that (note: in 2014 the referendum in Donbass and Lugansk clearly voted to be part of Russia. Yes, you can question the result but it was a bit more than 52%, if I may). BTW - there are already seven states reintegrating back into a sort of CIS style trading block, including some of the 'stans, Belarus and Armenia. This is not just about reinventing the Soviet Union.
So, what is happening is horrific, it's undefendable as an action but it is also possible to take a moment to understand why it was done and what the rational is behind it.
Final point - it would help a LOT if someone could get Liz Truss to read this post as her references and statements are so incorrect in their frames of history that they are insulting and completely unhelpful. That, above all, is my biggest fear - not Putin (who let's not forget has been in power since before Boris even got into politics in any form) but that the, frankly, amateurs on this side of the fence simply don't know what they are dealiing with. We desperately need a Merkel, even a Thatcher, who can handle this in the way that is needed, not some of the faux Churchillian bombast seen from too many (not just UK) leaders.
Hope that helps, as I say I'm not doing debate on it - if you disagree please feel free to do so but, with all respect, I have friends and family to be looking out for at this time so please excuse me if this doesn't answer all the points.
BTW - for anyone reading this who is Ukranian, my heart goes out to what your country is being put through. My prayers are that this can be resolved quickly and without more bloodshed.
But, and be sure, this is the single biggest threat to all our lives since at least WWII (may even including, given we didn't have nuclear bombs then). This only takes one person to misunderstand one signal, one command, one movement and we are all toast. Very, very worrying.

I think maybe Russia would be on a different path if they had leadership from people not KGB officers during the Soviet collapse
I think young Russia feels European. 
The older generation, I think their pride blinds them. 

Why do they have to be hostile forces though? He could be within spitting distance of friendly forces if he just made friends with everyone and wasn’t such a shifty rick with his finger on the button. 
the only reason people take a defensive stance against him, is because he’s so blatantly aggressive. NATO would be stupid not to keep their eye on him. But they don’t give a poo about Costa Rica. He should be like Costa Rica. 

I get that bit, but I was more questioning the OP who seemed to be suggesting that he was somehow forced into it (beginning a full scale military invasion of a neighbouring country) by "the west".
What did we do? And why did it trigger this now?
 
 

What threats though? Whe has ever threatened to attack Russia since the cold war ended?
If they didn't have a power-crazed dictator as a leader, then no western country would even need to consider defensive strategies against Russia, let alone offensive ones

What threats though? Whe has ever threatened to attack Russia since the cold war ended?
If they didn't have a power-crazed dictator as a leader, then no western country would even need to consider defensive strategies against Russia, let alone offensive ones

What threats though? Whe has ever threatened to attack Russia since the cold war ended?
If they didn't have a power-crazed dictator as a leader, then no western country would even need to consider defensive strategies against Russia, let alone offensive ones

What threats though? Whe has ever threatened to attack Russia since the cold war ended?
If they didn't have a power-crazed dictator as a leader, then no western country would even need to consider defensive strategies against Russia, let alone offensive ones

Yeah - I think they said by christmas originally? They just never said which year

The current government is becoming more and more Westernised. If Putin waits, he knows the current populations will be more and more against any military action or attempts to install his own puppet government. I'm guessing the NATO talks in December and how they went was another factor. 
Now or never. 

I don't get this - what has changed between the fall of the Soviet Union and now which  means that Russia suddenly has "no choice" but to begin a hostile military assault on another democratic country?
 
 

Just when I thought I was out ,,,, they pull me back in 
whata ya gonna do??‍♂️

I don't get this - what has changed between the fall of the Soviet Union and now which  means that Russia suddenly has "no choice" but to begin a hostile military assault on another democratic country?
 
 

I don't get this - what has changed between the fall of the Soviet Union and now which  means that Russia suddenly has "no choice" but to begin a hostile military assault on another democratic country?
 
 

I don't get this - what has changed between the fall of the Soviet Union and now which  means that Russia suddenly has "no choice" but to begin a hostile military assault on another democratic country?
 
 

Don't get the thread closed, gents!
I think its best just to keep it to the specific Ukraine war. Even though there's definite room for debate on western hypocrites and politics I don't think there's room for it on this forum. 
I don't know where on the Internet is a safe place to discuss the war. Twitter is so full of morons trying to collect "likes" and trolls trying to be cool. That this forum is at least the chance to discuss this huge world changing event.