jono

Yes Angie. There seems to be a premeditated desire to sow dissension and discord. It is my firm belief that whoever had been in charge would have faced the same pitfalls, scandals, cowboys, opportunists, snags, bumps and what not. Why on earth do the media have this slavering desire to find these negative stories rather than the ones that show the up side ? 
It should be none political in a situation like this, yep maybe we should have locked down a fortnight earlier but on the other side we got the procurement right, the distribution right and while there were the awkward squad having demos and celebrations about this that or the other, a huge and overwhelming portion of us played the game and within sensible  limits tried to stick to the very necessary rules. Slowly but surely day on day the situation is improving. We all want and need it faster but I bet everyone of us with a practical mind on this forum, in the govt and in science knows we have do it in a deliberate fashion. The media on the other hand in many cases and on every side of the political spectrum has been vulgar, ignorant, destructive  and divisive. I really despise the programme editors and newspaper owners .. they sicken me. They aren’t perveyors of truth or information which should be stories in themselves. Too many are scandal rags of the lowest order.
rant over ?? 

And the ramifications of not shutting down the economy would have destroyed the health service and the industries that are necessary to heat, light, feed and dispose of our waste and police the streets. . That would have lingered far more than a numeric figure on a national debt. People would be dead on a scale beyond a 1 year 15% blip in the year on year average. 
The effect of debt is also diminished in any case, because debt of this kind is relative -  if every other country has the same problem you are no poorer than anyone else. You can’t spend spend spend if no one else because you end up being perceived as dodgy relative to your neighbours .. not the case this time round 

And the ramifications of not shutting down the economy would have destroyed the health service and the industries that are necessary to heat, light, feed and dispose of our waste and police the streets. . That would have lingered far more than a numeric figure on a national debt. People would be dead on a scale beyond a 1 year 15% blip in the year on year average. 
The effect of debt is also diminished in any case, because debt of this kind is relative -  if every other country has the same problem you are no poorer than anyone else. You can’t spend spend spend if no one else because you end up being perceived as dodgy relative to your neighbours .. not the case this time round 

This is spot on. We can all work out from our own experiences that the rollout is way ahead of the Government's targets, presumably so we can ride any blips in the supply chain like this India one.
But the media want to use it as yet another 'story' to create a stir. They really do irritate me at times. It's not even political, as they do it with all parties, it's just this insatiable appetite for sensationalism and an inflated opinion of their own importance in the world!
 

And the ramifications of not shutting down the economy would have destroyed the health service and the industries that are necessary to heat, light, feed and dispose of our waste and police the streets. . That would have lingered far more than a numeric figure on a national debt. People would be dead on a scale beyond a 1 year 15% blip in the year on year average. 
The effect of debt is also diminished in any case, because debt of this kind is relative -  if every other country has the same problem you are no poorer than anyone else. You can’t spend spend spend if no one else because you end up being perceived as dodgy relative to your neighbours .. not the case this time round 

Exactly .. I think it is a case of poo happens and we all live with the results .. the young longer than the old, for sure. But that is hardly something anyone should be in another’s debt for. The old didn’t create Covid and the young throw themselves in front of a virus to protect everyone over 40. No segment got benefit from the other. Everyone just loved their lives with the circumstances that the game or life threw at them. One could talk about generational debt forever .. The 1st war trench generation of youth what debt was that ? 

No doubt true but many of those in the 50's and 60's have a decade or so in front of them to also live through the pain and, as I said, it's not as if the older have generation have inflicted the virus on the younger people so I don't quite see how they "owe" them.

Ah!... But!...
If you're slogging up a very steep hill, won't that automatically become trudging, just by the very fact that it's a steep hill, and that you are already knackered?
 
And where the hell is "Getting a wriggle on" in your list?  Muckerette is a firm advocate of me "getting a wriggle on"!  (Probably an Ilson thing!)   ?

I’m in earnest mode, so forgive me !  .. I just know that from crusty times past .. “normal brisk walking pace” was defined by whoever was the sage of the day as ... 3 MPH .. so anything over that in my retentive world is doing more than walking .. wasn’t there a health guru thing that christened it “power walking” in the 1980’s ? 
 
we need to specify the process, here’s my shot at it ..?
Walking . Not less than 3 MPH
Strolling 2-3 MPH
Ambling .. 2-3 MPH with bits of 3 MPH interspersed with occasional  periods of 1.5/2.0 while you day dream. 
Trudging ..1.5/2.0 MPH .. directionally and goal focussed
Meandering .. like trudging but without discernible purpose
Slogging .. 2.5 MPH .. when your knackered and it’s raining but you’re putting some effort in 
 

I’m in earnest mode, so forgive me !  .. I just know that from crusty times past .. “normal brisk walking pace” was defined by whoever was the sage of the day as ... 3 MPH .. so anything over that in my retentive world is doing more than walking .. wasn’t there a health guru thing that christened it “power walking” in the 1980’s ? 
 
we need to specify the process, here’s my shot at it ..?
Walking . Not less than 3 MPH
Strolling 2-3 MPH
Ambling .. 2-3 MPH with bits of 3 MPH interspersed with occasional  periods of 1.5/2.0 while you day dream. 
Trudging ..1.5/2.0 MPH .. directionally and goal focussed
Meandering .. like trudging but without discernible purpose
Slogging .. 2.5 MPH .. when your knackered and it’s raining but you’re putting some effort in 
 

I've calculated my walk to the match (remember that!) at 3.8mph (1.9 miles in 30 minutes).
However, when we don our walking boots and rucksacks, get out in the fields and take in the fresher air and greener scenery, I suspect (Ignoring picnics and generally taking in the views) a 6 mile hike takes us a good 2hrs to 2hrs 20mins.So 3mph to 2.6mph.
I doubt I've ever even seen anyone walking at 4mph+... isn't that called jogging!  ?

Hey ho, I guess we all have our view. My overwhelming sense of “debt” is really only to those who have created vaccines;  for their intellect, then the leaders who have made the supply and rollout work and particularly to the health workers who have coped amazingly with a poo storm. When it comes to the NHS pay debate I wouldn’t change whatever normal pay increase gets agreed but I would be proposing a one off Covid Bonus to reward the exceptional and arduous work that they have done over the last 12 months. Youth has suffered as have old folks and their relatives. Then consider the parents of our youth who have done their bit keeping their kids foundations stable for when things get better. 

Can’t agree .. The young are not falling by the wayside in numbers and never have. Everyone has sacrificed something in their different ways. The Young’s sacrifice is no greater or smaller than anyone elses. We are all in it together. Splitting or dividing us in to groups beyond simple physical vulnerability is divisive and helps no one 

Hey ho, I guess we all have our view. My overwhelming sense of “debt” is really only to those who have created vaccines;  for their intellect, then the leaders who have made the supply and rollout work and particularly to the health workers who have coped amazingly with a poo storm. When it comes to the NHS pay debate I wouldn’t change whatever normal pay increase gets agreed but I would be proposing a one off Covid Bonus to reward the exceptional and arduous work that they have done over the last 12 months. Youth has suffered as have old folks and their relatives. Then consider the parents of our youth who have done their bit keeping their kids foundations stable for when things get better. 

Just out of interest, how do you think the under 40’s have sacrificed far more than the over 40’s? Genuine question.
OK, they’ve had a year or so of restricted freedom in their relative youth that the older generation enjoyed but, assuming another pandemic doesn’t come around (which it might of course) they’ll enjoy more freedom for a year or so in their middle age than some in that age bracket are now.
For me, those that have sacrificed/suffered the most are those that have lost lives, lost loved ones lost income or lost their jobs. Those areas are not limited to the young.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel sorry for the young but, I also feel sorry for the elderly and vulnerable that haven’t been able to go out. I feel sorry for people of all ages that have not been able to go out, go on holiday, meet family and friends etc etc
I don’t think we owe any age group a debt.

Has there been any change to the plan as a result of potential shortage of vaccines? Also, it’s not as if they’re allowing those that have had the jab back into the wild whilst keeping the young locked up. I know there is talk of vaccine passports but, I don’t think that is imminent and they’re still hoping to offer the jab to all adults by the end of July aren’t they?
As @jonosays, we’re all in this together and there have been sacrifices made in all age groups.

Can’t agree .. The young are not falling by the wayside in numbers and never have. Everyone has sacrificed something in their different ways. The Young’s sacrifice is no greater or smaller than anyone elses. We are all in it together. Splitting or dividing us in to groups beyond simple physical vulnerability is divisive and helps no one 

Interesting one that. It wouldn’t cause me a problem in an alternate universe. Our digestive tract is designed on be omnivorous. Meat is a type of first class protein which our gut is designed for. That said .. we eat way too much meat. It should be occasional -  which would then mean there isn’t the necessity to produce factory meat by so many foul means. .. Hunting for it is fair does in my book. Uhhh I kind of lost the Covid topic and went on a Jono opinion ramble .. whooops ?

Interesting one that. It wouldn’t cause me a problem in an alternate universe. Our digestive tract is designed on be omnivorous. Meat is a type of first class protein which our gut is designed for. That said .. we eat way too much meat. It should be occasional -  which would then mean there isn’t the necessity to produce factory meat by so many foul means. .. Hunting for it is fair does in my book. Uhhh I kind of lost the Covid topic and went on a Jono opinion ramble .. whooops ?

Can’t agree .. The young are not falling by the wayside in numbers and never have. Everyone has sacrificed something in their different ways. The Young’s sacrifice is no greater or smaller than anyone elses. We are all in it together. Splitting or dividing us in to groups beyond simple physical vulnerability is divisive and helps no one 

Interesting one that. It wouldn’t cause me a problem in an alternate universe. Our digestive tract is designed on be omnivorous. Meat is a type of first class protein which our gut is designed for. That said .. we eat way too much meat. It should be occasional -  which would then mean there isn’t the necessity to produce factory meat by so many foul means. .. Hunting for it is fair does in my book. Uhhh I kind of lost the Covid topic and went on a Jono opinion ramble .. whooops ?

Has Barry on twitter confirmed this yet? 

*waits for Sheffield Wednesday fan to turn up and tell us all the doom and gloom before nearly 500 pages of nothing ensues*

Disgusting, (probably) a Forest fan on this occasion but let’s not forget there’s a few moronic knuckle-draggers amongst our ranks, it is simply not acceptable