Maharan

I don’t think preparation for league 1 can begin until post January, when we’ll have a better idea of who’s left. You only need to look at how Wigan’s young talent was snapped up to get an idea of what could happen 

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

In the here and now all very good. In the long term, how many people is it putting off getting a season ticket, costing clubs a lot of revenue?

I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure we can afford to be worrying about the long term given the circumstances

10 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Rather than help pay the debt off, the extra income is more likely to help keep us going and is why, although we may not like these awkward kick off times and days, for the time being we should put up with it rather than sing derogatory songs about Sky. 

Completely agree. I thought there was a fee, but didn't know how much. Every penny helps! 

Do Sky pay more for televised games?

12 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

If the EFL are negotiating it then it could be absolutely anything. I'd be surprised if they didn't end up exchanging players for a nice pub lunch.

Not gonna lie, I do like a good pub lunch. 

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

No, I think the players registrations, certainly those under 24, revert to the EFL in the case of liquidation, and they ensure that any clubs signing them pay compensation for them, which the EFL then distribute to (wait for it).... FOOTBALL CREDITORS! It's paid pro-rata p/£ according to the relative amounts owing. 

Ah okay, I stand corrected. I genuinely didn't know that. I'm guessing that the compensation can be just a nominal fee though?  

8 minutes ago, Rev said:

IF we were to go under, the players would be worth nothing to the creditors, would they?

Clubs only own the right to use those players for the duration of their contracts, which would be null and void upon liquidation, I'd have thought.

Yeah, I think the administrators would need to sell them before the club was liquidated, otherwise they are free to move on for nowt. 

10 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

And not forgetting that even under normal circumstances, most clubs will be losing money at this time of the season.  Significant parts of clubs income are paid at the start of the season (season tickets), the end of the season (prize money) and potentially in the 2 transfer windows (if you sell players for a profit).  Clubs will bank the cash then, and lose money in-between.

That might be true if there was any money to bank..

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

So basically slater’s most informed source says exactly what I said earlier in this thread. Hmrc will not demand all payment up front and will risk getting nothing if they insist on payment in full. Not worth paying £60 subscription for that I would say. Or 60p come to that.

Whilst I do think there may be a deal to be done, it's interesting that he says that nearly everyone he speaks to says HMRC won't budge on the amount, and a single expert thinks they may accept a significant discount. I dunno, I think it's still very worrying. Time is not our friend either, and Xmas will inevitably slow things down.   

4 minutes ago, kingsy1884 said:

Agreed.

I suspect they have done it just to annoy us and to show their displeasure to the EFL.

All of which will result in nothing.

I hope so, but I just don't know. In fact I can't find details around what the actual claims are about anywhere. It's astonishing the EFL haven't stepped in yet, unless there's more to it than is being disclosed. 

26 minutes ago, kingsy1884 said:

These claims are vexatious. Whilst I do not think the EFL are at all fit for purpose they are surely likely to back our cause on these two.

The precedence it sets would be wholly unsustainable and risks the integrity of the whole football pyramid under the EFL. Basically EFL clubs squabbling forever outside of pitch. Also completely renders useless the points deduction.

The EFL are inept but not evil.

I would have thought that the EFL would step in, and I think there is an expectation that disputes between clubs are settled within the EFL structures. That's why I wonder what the basis of the claims actually are. Is there more to it? I genuinely don't know

51 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

They cannot sue. Only bring a complaint through the Efl. So Efl can tell them to do one .

Do you even know what the basis for the claim is? I certainly haven't seen any details. I know we can assume, but I haven't seen anything firm. 

Congratulations to all those involved. Definitely a good news story

1 minute ago, Tombo said:

It got a lot harder after this weekend. 19 points from safety with 26 games to play. It's not early season anymore, we're running out of games.

Not to be doom or gloom, but that's where we are. It needs to be a long streak of wins to get us back into sensible points difference territory. Average 2 points a game or thereabouts.

Yeah, I can't see it happening to be honest. I tend to lean towards the less optimistic side, but must admit I tend not to vocalise it much because I can tell others are of a different mind, and that's fine. We're all wired differently I guess. 

2 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I quite often wonder what Rooney's long game is here, as it seems bizarre to think of a legendary International footballer clinging to the wreckage of a club destined for League One

But maybe, just maybe he's seen what happened to the likes of Lampard and Solksjaer and realised that's not the path he wants right now. As a footballer you get a professional career of 15-20 years if you're lucky. If you start managing at 35 then you potentially have a management career of double that length. Learning the job in a big club with no expectations, facing tough challenges without the threat of immediate sacking if you get it wrong is actually not a bad idea. Got to be better than going in green to a massive club with a squad worth 100s of millions and getting ditched at the first sign of trouble - and finding yourself jobless after only a couple of years in the management game

A similar route to Steven Gerrard. You're right in that it might give him the fundamental building blocks to become a successful manager in the longer term. Lets be honest, he'll be learning thick and fast right now.  

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

But Maguire isn't talking about how good or bad the deal potentially is. He's saying that legally we *have* to pay 100%, which is just plain wrong.

Well legally I'd have thought the club should be paying 100%, but I do understand what you're saying. Hopefully there is an acceptable deal to be made.

13 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

He talks out his arse. He doesn’t know his left from his right the dimwit. Going on about Morris and the 25 percent and we are uncertain. It’s been mentioned 20 times Morris is giving that up . Then he keeps going on his podcasts about this 50 odd million for a league one club and bring paid in full. How many times has it been mentioned we are doing a deal with hmrc and they won’t be paid in full. Also he’s going on about Paying the full amount for no stadium. The 20 million to msd is for the stadium. Nobody listen to him he’s a complete ??

But nobody knows what the deal with HMRC is going to be, let's be honest. They may well insist on the vast majority of the debt being paid, and from a moral perspective, you'd expect them to chase unpaid taxes from all those who don't pay. I know the administrators have mentioned that discussions are ongoing with HMRC, but no figures have been mentioned. There may be a deal to be done, but do you or I know whether that is 99% of the outstanding debt or less? I just don't think we do, and it wouldn't surprise me if HMRC decide to flex their new status as preferred creditors. 

23 minutes ago, sage said:

It would be the last resort. It would be to stop us going bust. Is liquidation a better look? 

But if the threat of liquidation raises its ugly head again, who in their right mind would buy a season ticket for the following year?

3 hours ago, derby8 said:

bbc football reports another £1.2m loss in first 8 weeks of administration with admin and legal fees growing too. Prospective new owners will be looking at lengths of the expensive contracts in part causing this...

Yeah, I noted that. Still making 600k loss per month despite the cuts already made. sobering stuff

I honestly feared the discussions with HMRC were going to be the most difficult. I hope that the optimistic tone being used by the administrators is based in reality. If so, that could be the best news we could have wished for. Not that I'm saying the club should shirk its tax liability, more that HMRC aren't going in for the jugular. 

30 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

? Really not accusing RamsTrust of anything, or wanting you to say any more. You know how these threads twist and turn.

This one started, why we needed another one God only knows, with RoyMac suggesting we might be being ‘threatened’ again by the EFL, PistoldPete coming straight in with what a bunch of Bamfords the EFL are again, and even when it is explained that it is a standard bit of EFL procedure, posters (well really the aforementioned two) still think the EFL are too blame for not communicating fully.

All I think I am saying is that all this anti-EFL rhetoric is getting a bit tedious. Our Owner put us into Administration.  Our status as a football club was put at risk. The EFL as per their Articles put us on notice that we were at risk of having our golden share withdrawn. That has now been suspended (that’s good news!!!! Roy and Pete), because our Administrators have supplied information to the EFL that eases their concerns regarding our ability to continue trading/fulfill fixtures, etc., etc. Hopefully in due course the suspension will be removed too, once we have  new owners and a viable business plan has been established (and Creditors of course have been satisfied).

l don’t think it credible for the EFL to keep giving open letter updates to fans, which seems to be being demanded on this thread. They are making themselves available to the Administrators and RamsTrust, and I think it more for those organisations to communicate to the supporters as to what is happening. In that regard, I think RamsTrust representatives who are meeting with the EFL should be properly prepared and be fully aware of what the Regs and Articles say in relation to insolvency situations.

Pity you won’t be at the Cottage tonight. I would have given you a big squeeze x

I-Ram, I couldn't agree more.

12 hours ago, Philmycock said:

As us Derby fans whip together to raise funds for the St John's Ambulance service, Steve Gibson is menacingly trying to take our club from us for his own pleasure and financial gain.

Shameful. Unclassy. Spiteful.

Let's not lose sight of why Derby fans are raising funds for St John's Ambulance, and that's nothing to do with Gibson. 

As others have said, I can't help but feel there is something else going on here. The legal case doesn't seem to make any sense or have a cats chance in hell of success when looked at in isolation. I dunno, it's odd and appears to be petty, but being the natural pessimist that I am, I can't help but wonder if there's more to it. If there isn't, then this kind of claim undermines the integrity of the league, and hopefully they throw the book at them.  

18 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

An HMRC debt was cleared in January 2020 I believe. Of the £26 million PAYE debt now outstanding I believe the vast bulk of it built up since the pandemic.

That feels like a lot of PAYE debt to rack up in 20 odd months. Is that right? Genuine question, cos I've got no idea. 

3 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

And what are the debts of other similar sized Championship clubs? It looks alarming but is it that out if step with similar clubs with similar revenue streams? 

I don't know the answer, but the simple fact is other championship clubs aren't in administration. (yet?)

It is a sobering figure. All eyes on HMRC now to see how flexible they will be.