DCFC Accounts....

[ramblur]

Just to confirm then ramblur (I'm rounding figures to keep the maths simple). We effectively made a £4m cash loss. We spent about £1.6m net on player transfers, plus we have another £500k or so due incoming after these accounts were posted. So in very rough terms, the saving we need to make to balance the books (assuming no transfers) is around £2.4m, bearing in mind that we have £500k of that due in, plus we've already saved a large amount of wages on Leacock, Varney, Bywater etc etc? Is that a reasonable assessment?

Can kind of see what you're trying to say,duncan.Since Glick has said that this year's result on operations will be similar to 10/11,then it's reasonable to start off with the same negative EBITDA again,viz £2.5m.We should then at least cover the interest due of £1m,which therefore takes us to £3.5m.Now you can never tell what will happen to debtors and creditors-this year it adversely affected cash,but next year it could swing and actually reduce the £3.5m.Best option is probably to take it as neutral and go with the £3.5m.

We know that £5.8m has been put in (and we also know this is likely to be further debt,as Glick has said that the £28m will be half equity and half loan capital),so there will be £2.3m left out of this to cover the capital side.£2.4m was specified for purchases in post balance sheet events and £799k was owing at the year end.This can be offset by £519k owing to us at the year end,together with the Varney money of £196k.

Bit simplistic because of all the variables,but it doesn't seem to leave anything for this summer.Thing that annoys me is the figure for admin expenses which seems to be a very high £7.4m (yet not as high as the 2 previous years!).I find it rather significant that the club's site left this figure out and preferred to present a graphic that didn't add up (and understandably left a lot of fans confused).

[alexxxxx]

i know nothing about accounts or business, but could someone explain to me briefly what the £7.4m admin costs are?

[ramblur]

Finally,the reconciliation of total investment I promised.For those of you who have the General Sports Derby UK Ltd accounts,please go to the start of page9 headed "Company balance sheet" and look at the first item under "fixed assets" headed "Investment". The figure of £30.291m represents the total purchase of the club (including AP's share) for £16m and equity injections into the club of £14.3m.

We now need to add the loans featuring in the DCFC accounts of £1,747,298 (the old one) +£6,802,085 (the new one).This totals £8,549,383 and gives a new running total of £38,840.Next we need to add the £5.8m signalled in the directors' report for 11/12 (which I accept),to give a final total of £44.640m. (of which £16m represents club purchase and £28.6m inward investment into the club).

If anyone wants to know why some figures are rounded up to the nearest £1k,yet some are complete figures,it's simple.All figures that appear in the main body of accounts are rounded,whereas figures derived from notes attaching to the accounts are often exact.

In the balance sheet that I initially mentioned,some may have noticed a debtors figure of £8,996m.This represents the £8.549m mentioned above plus accrued interest of £446k (allowing for rounding error).This is owed to the ultimate parent company,GS Derby Partners LLC .

[ramblur]

i know nothing about accounts or business, but could someone explain to me briefly what the £7.4m admin costs are?

Mainly the salaries of office staff and executives and the running costs of the offices.There will also be depreciation charges for office equipment,F&F etc,and a proportion of the depreciation charge for PP itself.Don't forget office expenses include heat and light and telephone etc.Can't mention everything,but there will likely be insurances and a host of other things.Don't forget shop,ticket office and training complex as well.

If you want an inkling of the kind of staff,go to the club site and click on the "club" tab at the top.In the drop down menu,click on "whos who" and gasp!

[davenportram]

Ramblur thanks for your efforts - I don't follow half of it but it seems a little more positive.

I agree that it would be better if we could sign a couple of gems, I personally would be happy selling a good young un if it provided the funds to do what Sourhampton did after selling Walcott.

.

[Guest]

Ramblur thanks for your efforts - I don't follow half of it but it seems a little more positive.

I agree that it would be better if we could sign a couple of gems, I personally would be happy selling a good young un if it provided the funds to do what Sourhampton did after selling Walcott.

.

didnt they go into administration after selling Walcott, accepting an early repayment from the gunners for the final part of his fee 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />

[davenportram]

okay then - whos the other fella they sold that paid for their strikers

[CumbrianRam]

Lambert was signed 2 years before Oxlade-Chamberlain left.

[Ghost of Clough]

They sold McGoldrick to Forest and signed Lambert a month later for the same fee. They also sold Nathan Dyer and Andrew Surman in the same transfer period for just over £1.5m.

In 2007 didn't they sell Kenwyne Jones for £6m and Chris Baird for £3m?

[ladyram]

Sorry,probably misled with my original answer-none of the funding appears to be for the Plaza as it's all gone on working capital.

Just noticed an error in my post starting 'Debt is as follows:-' .In the first paragraph 'end of year cash of £1.175m' should read £1.75m.Could a mod please alter this for me.Thanks.

No probs Ramblur, the plaza development must be seperate then? I thought it would all be one & the same (shows how much I know ) 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />

Have altered your post for you btw.

[i84est]

Bloody hell, what computer did they buy at half a million quid? The one on the Starship Enterprise?

Went on a tour of the ground last year and the old fella that does it was banging on about how much the club had spent at replacing all the tvs and he said it was about 450000 could this be it. Also he said all the main trophies we have are locked away in a warehouse in Doncaster as the insurance was to much

[ramblur]

No probs Ramblur, the plaza development must be seperate then? I thought it would all be one & the same (shows how much I know ) 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />

Have altered your post for you btw.

Thanks ladyram.We did spend £9k on land and buildings-could that be it? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> .Seriously,nobody knows how the Plaza will pan out (at least,none of us).

[curb]

Makes sense for them to do it! You have to ask the question why it wasn't share capital if there was no "expectation" of repayment.Not saying it will happen,but I have to warn everyone that they could use most of any big player sale/s to pay this down (and give Nigel peanuts).Similarly,if the Plaza were to be developed,some income could repay debt rather than fund players.

I thought it was because they couldn't invest any more capital over and above the original agreed investment plan, but I can't remember why I got that impression (maybe one or more of the investors are not prepared or able to invest more. so if, say, one investor put more money in it would weaken the position of others).

I have no proof that this is the case, just offering it up as a possible reason.

[ramblur]

I thought it was because they couldn't invest any more capital over and above the original agreed investment plan, but I can't remember why I got that impression (maybe one or more of the investors are not prepared or able to invest more. so if, say, one investor put more money in it would weaken the position of others).

I have no proof that this is the case, just offering it up as a possible reason.

Only problem I have with that is the new £6.8m loan is supposed to be interest free,thus anyone not investing would be getting the benefit of this for no outlay.

[ladyram]

Thanks ladyram.We did spend £9k on land and buildings-could that be it? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> .Seriously,nobody knows how the Plaza will pan out (at least,none of us).

All I know is the plans were approved for the plaza in October last year and the build will cost £7 million. I just wondered if this contributes to the club's current debt as the money has to come from somewhere - although TG hasn't said where the funding will come from, just that they're looking at different ways of funding it.

But hey ho, who knows?

[ramblur]

Ramblur thanks for your efforts - I don't follow half of it but it seems a little more positive.

I agree that it would be better if we could sign a couple of gems, I personally would be happy selling a good young un if it provided the funds to do what Sourhampton did after selling Walcott.

.

Thanks Davenport.Can't help feeling there's a decent player hiding away in those admin expenses.In 06/07 admin came in at £5.2m -same club,same division.Even allowing for inflation,current level looks high.

[davenportram]

They are high but I think that GSE are relying on the Academy bearing fruit. Glick mentioned, in the DET, a doubling of investment into the academy in the past couple of years

.

[ramblur]

They are high but I think that GSE are relying on the Academy bearing fruit. Glick mentioned, in the DET, a doubling of investment into the academy in the past couple of years

.

Apart from admin back up (which would have been there anyway),I would imagine Academy costs to come under 'direct operating costs'.

Good question for the 'randomly selected' forums though.

[ramblur]

Oops,just noticed a small gaffe in the final paragraph of my post on reconciliation of investment on page 11.

Where I mentioned a debtors' figure of £8.996m,I should have said that this forms part of a creditors figure of £10.131m in the same section,the balance appearing to be a parent company loan to buy out AP and fund some small admin expenses.It's this total amount that's owed to the parent company (though the extra £1m+ doesn't affect DCFC).

[ramblur]

Around the end of June last year something seemed to 'snap' in the finances. Earlier, both TG and NC seemed to be confidently expecting a few more signings - with talismanic stikers and midfield generals being high on the agenda. By mid July the statements had become much more cautious. The rumour that I heard is that one or two of the investment group had gotten cold feet about putting any more cash in. I also heard a rumour that one of the big fish investors had 'pulled out' although I was assured that this merely meant that he was no longer involved in the boardroom, but his investment still remained.

This is more abstract thought than a realistic hypothesis, but what would the accounts look like if one or two of the investment group decided they wanted to take their money out? Is it possible (and this is a genuine question because I really don't know) that the club, through one level of ownership, could take out a loan to buy back the shares of the departing investors? Or, in a smilar vien, is it possible that it would be impossible for a departing investor to actually take their money out, so they accepted having their shares turned into a loan? In this scenario it could ensure that they would be repaid when the club could afford to and would absent the formmer investor from future cash calls?

Think the problem with part of your last paragraph is that these new loans represent fresh money into the club ,as opposed to a shift of investment status.In any event,not too sure that other investors would care to be cemented into position whilst others were allowed to 'escape'.There's also the problem of shifting percentage stakes.