ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 All in all some encouraging things and a few eye openers there.Must admit I've changed my stance towards the owners a bit-shame about Jewell really,as they might otherwise have been quite good.Just wish they could deliver a couple of quality players though 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Haven't a clue why I surfaced so early,but am shattered now and will be back off to bed after a coffee.Will answer any questions when I surface (could well be afternoon!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just to confirm then ramblur (I'm rounding figures to keep the maths simple). We effectively made a £4m cash loss. We spent about £1.6m net on player transfers, plus we have another £500k or so due incoming after these accounts were posted. So in very rough terms, the saving we need to make to balance the books (assuming no transfers) is around £2.4m, bearing in mind that we have £500k of that due in, plus we've already saved a large amount of wages on Leacock, Varney, Bywater etc etc? Is that a reasonable assessment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyram Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I've got a question - will the money the club are using for the Plaza development be included in these figures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just to confirm then ramblur (I'm rounding figures to keep the maths simple). We effectively made a £4m cash loss. We spent about £1.6m net on player transfers, plus we have another £500k or so due incoming after these accounts were posted. So in very rough terms, the saving we need to make to balance the books (assuming no transfers) is around £2.4m, bearing in mind that we have £500k of that due in, plus we've already saved a large amount of wages on Leacock, Varney, Bywater etc etc? Is that a reasonable assessment? Not really a cash loss of £4m-the loss is really the EBITDA figure,to which you have to add the interest paid figure (which is always different to the interest due figure shown in P/L),making around £3m.The reason the cash deficit is different to EBITDA (and it always is) is that we actually paid stuff off relating to last year as well.I'll try and give you an example,using ridiculous figures:- Say we owed £700k to an electicity company at the start of the year (in other words an amount that related to the previous year) and say the charge due for the current year is £5000k (this is what would go into P/L and would thus form part of EBITDA).Now say we actually paid £5600 in the year (in other words £600 more than was due for the year) and owed £100 at the end of the year.If you take the opening creditor (£700k) from the closing creditor (£100k),you get -£600k (in other words creditors were reduced over the year).When you apply this to our negative EBITDA,it makes the cash deficit worse,but it's got nothing to do with the year's actual trading,it's an artificial extra.What the reconciliation in note 21 does is aggregate all of these situations over both debtors and creditors and applies them to the operating profit/loss-if creditors are reduced overall (as happened in this year),then the cash situation is worse than EBITDA shows,but artificially (not due to trading) worse.Similarly if debtors increased,then we wouldn't have received all the income that had been due,and again the cash situation would have been worse. The next year however things could swing the other way and you could generate artificial cash,just as some clubs have generated artificial cash by not paying the Revenue.I know it's probably hard to grasp,but I struggle to find a simpler way to explain it. As far as the rest goes,I'll have to get back to you because I'm dog tired and can't concentrate.Think you may have forgotten the post balance sheet items though-especially player purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I've got a question - will the money the club are using for the Plaza development be included in these figures? Afraid not ladyram-all gone down the black hole.Really am off to kip now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Other items included purchase of tangible assets £450k (mainly F&F and a computer) Bloody hell, what computer did they buy at half a million quid? The one on the Starship Enterprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archram Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Many thanks, Ramblur, for taking all this time and effort when you're so unwell. Although you say your main problems will not improve, I hope that you get to enjoy some good spells soon. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thank you ramblur for the fantastic posts you're a legend! Also you explain things perfectly fine for me. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> So, can anyone PM me a link for the accounts? Pweddy pwease? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateDerby Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Nice one Ramblur, way too advanced for me though! So are we just scraping the barrel until we get back in the big time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Nice one Ramblur, way too advanced for me though! So are we just scraping the barrel until we get back in the big time? Well looks like we were still progressing nicely towards break-even when you considers the wages that have gone since then. My biggest concern is the loan rather than equity investment. ramblur's given reasons why it makes sense to do that but it still makes me uneasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 P.S. As that is the Forest/Doughty method and that didn't work out too nicely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Bloody hell, what computer did they buy at half a million quid? The one on the Starship Enterprise? Wonder if its something to do with the new turnstile equipment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I've got a question - will the money the club are using for the Plaza development be included in these figures? Sorry,probably misled with my original answer-none of the funding appears to be for the Plaza as it's all gone on working capital. Just noticed an error in my post starting 'Debt is as follows:-' .In the first paragraph 'end of year cash of £1.175m' should read £1.75m.Could a mod please alter this for me.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Nice one Ramblur, way too advanced for me though! So are we just scraping the barrel until we get back in the big time? Well it seems like we can break even on the revenue side of the business (unless attendances slump,in which case we've problems as the wages have been trimmed to the bone).The problem is in generating something for the capital side (player purchases mainly).Looks like we're looking for cup runs and player sales if the owners are reluctant to put any of their money in from now on.Bit gloomy I'm afraid.Looks like the £5.8m they put in after the year end (i.e this financial year) will all have been gobbled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Bloody hell, what computer did they buy at half a million quid? The one on the Starship Enterprise? Computer was £141k,Fixtures and Fittings £300k (unspecified) and Land and Buildings £9k (probably some small renovation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Ram Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 If you don't look after the finances then maybe we won't have a club, simple really it's a new era of football prudency - we have had a few years to get used to it in advance of other clubs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontarianram Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Ramblur as always thank you so much for your time and effort in looking through these accounts - no-one else is as thorough or as informative as you are on these matters and as many have already said, the fact you do this while feeling unwell makes it all the more impressive. Now you can put this aside and look forward to almost a full year with no more accounts to look through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Well looks like we were still progressing nicely towards break-even when you considers the wages that have gone since then. My biggest concern is the loan rather than equity investment. ramblur's given reasons why it makes sense to do that but it still makes me uneasy. Makes sense for them to do it! You have to ask the question why it wasn't share capital if there was no "expectation" of repayment.Not saying it will happen,but I have to warn everyone that they could use most of any big player sale/s to pay this down (and give Nigel peanuts).Similarly,if the Plaza were to be developed,some income could repay debt rather than fund players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Ramblur as always thank you so much for your time and effort in looking through these accounts - no-one else is as thorough or as informative as you are on these matters and as many have already said, the fact you do this while feeling unwell makes it all the more impressive. Now you can put this aside and look forward to almost a full year with no more accounts to look through! Thanks Ontarianram.Once I've answered any queries for the rest of the day I'll be taking a back seat.After all,most seem to know the realities of the situation now,so there's very little left for me to say.Thanks also for the kind comments of others.Nothing improves my health more than a cracking Rams win,and I can still wake the village up when we score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thanks Ontarianram.Once I've answered any queries for the rest of the day I'll be taking a back seat.After all,most seem to know the realities of the situation now,so there's very little left for me to say.Thanks also for the kind comments of others.Nothing improves my health more than a cracking Rams win,and I can still wake the village up when we score! Ramblur May I add my thanks too and convey my best wishes to you while you are battling to regain good health. That's what really matters at the end of the day. As you say elsewhere, the figures probably are a bit gloomy but most supporters are realistic enough to accept the financial situation we are in. That being the case, I hope we can find a way of remaining competitive, without having to sell all the "up and coming" young stars before we've had a look at them ourselves. It's tough but we are in better shape than some. That's pretty frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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