sage Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 No he said Tyson was the only poor signing and argued other poor signings aren't considered poor due to being freebies. Read my lips..,REALLY bad signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 We could move onto all the players he's fell out with next, including his own signings. Why can't he work with one in four players? Is it a problem with the players themselves or the manager? Do other managers have this problem? I wonder how much money we've wasted having players sat in the stands when we've been desperately short on the pitch? Albrechtson, Commons, Leacock, Bywater, Pearson, Croft, Cywka, Addison, Matin, Maguire, Bueno, B Davies, have I missed any? **** seems to happen quite a lot more at Derby than anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Did he really fall out with all those players? I think not. Maybe 3 of them. Droppins someone or selling someone isn't the same as falling out with someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 We could move onto all the players he's fell out with next, including his own signings. Why can't he work with one in four players? Is it a problem with the players themselves or the manager? Do other managers have this problem? I wonder how much money we've wasted having players sat in the stands when we've been desperately short on the pitch? Albrechtson, Commons, Leacock, Bywater, Pearson, Croft, Cywka, Addison, Matin, Maguire, Bueno, B Davies, have I missed any? **** seems to happen quite a lot more at Derby than anywhere else. One or two of those I've heard interesting things about. I can't say and even if I did, it's "friend of a friend" sorta stuff, but if these things are true then there's little Clough could do. I'm not a Clough fan. But if the things I've heard are true I can't say I'd have kept a number of those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 No he said Tyson was the only poor signing and argued other poor signings aren't considered poor due to being free. Simply put, we do not have the scouting to find good players in our budget and a manager who can't get the best out of them. opinion mate, opinion. I could make a case that Brayford, Bailey, Fielding and Ward are good players in our budget..... Its all a bit pointless anyway. I did say at the start of the season that Clough will be judged on results this season regardless of whether he signed a new contract or not. Looks to me that the fans need a scapegoat and Clough will be sacrificed by GSE unless we finish well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It might be that Clough doesn't handle his players well or it might be case of certain players being lazy and selfish and Clough being stubborn enough he just won't play them before their attitude is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I voted C. Still think only time will tell with the board. Not happy with some of their white lies and spin but there's a chance they know what they're doing. Can't say I am unhappy with them. With Clough, though, I just can't see any brilliance in him. He's not the worst manager we've ever had, don't get me wrong. I don't think he did a bad job his first two seasons either. He did some dirty work few other managers would be prepared to do. The first two seasons were never going to be about success, more preventing failure or disaster. Which I feel Clough helped steer us away from. But then you look at what we are now. A squad of good, but not excellent players. Sometimes they look ok. Others, they look dreadful. There seems little rhyme or reason to it, other than one dreadful performance very oftern has another performance following it. And after that. And after that. Then you look at some of our substitutions, like bringing on Buxton in various games. And brining on Doyle at West Ham. Then you look at the way we played against Leicester. The performance was poor, yes, but the best way to describe it was timid - we didn't do anything to trouble them. And I'm convinced with the squad we have, we could've given a much better account of ourselves. I don't even think Clough has made that poor signings. Yep, some have been pretty bad, but with his budget and the amount of players he's signed, that is bound to happen. He's picked out some gems. That makes our performances worse. Brayford is a shadow of the player he was last season. Bailey is a shadow of the player he could be. Frankie Fielding has forgotten how to kick. Tom Carroll looks awful. To eradicate these issues, you need man management, you need to play these players in their best positions, and you need to coach them well. Can someone please tell me if they believe Clough does all three of those well. I can't see us going down with Clough, as he's got a hard-working bunch of competent players. There's no one in the team who I shudder when I hear their name, like Claude Davis. And the players do seem proud to wear the shirt. It's not like those Jewell, Brown or Gregory performances when you could tell the players weren't bothered. But I can not see success with his tactics, managerial skills or coaching methods. Can you ever see this manager taking us in to Europe? Or seeing out a title challenge in this league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I can't see anybody taking us in to Europe. At least while I'm alive. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamOfKansas Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 E. Frustrated with both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyJumper Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Based on GSE's plan, we are not likely to see any meaningful change until such time as FFP becomes a reality, or if the majority of clubs change their financial prudence. In the meantime it would be nice to see a more positive approach to how we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 opinion mate, opinion. I could make a case that Brayford, Bailey, Fielding and Ward are good players in our budget..... Its all a bit pointless anyway. I did say at the start of the season that Clough will be judged on results this season regardless of whether he signed a new contract or not. Looks to me that the fans need a scapegoat and Clough will be sacrificed by GSE unless we finish well. Yeah of course, that's just my opinion and it will not be shared by others. Fielding, Brayford, Bailey and Ward are great signings within our budget but he's signed around 26 players since he's been here (I was shocked at that figure). Two were at a good value (Barker and Shackell) and the 4 above are great signings for the budget. So there's 20 other signings that either haven't worked, aren't working or the jury is out on them. When you don't have much in the bank then that's not a great ratio. We seem to buy from lower leagues rather than from abroad, maybe this is Nigel thinking that lower league players will be hard workers and foreign players won't or maybe we just don't have the network to properly recruit foreign talent. In recent years (by recent I've just realised I mean about 20 years) our best bargains have generally come from abroad and that's due to getting more for your money when you look elsewhere other than lower English teams. My 2nd point about man management. People harp on about his dad not suffering fools. Well firstly he isn't his dad and secondly times have changed and like it or not football is different to what it was 40 years ago. For good man managers look at O'Neill and Redknapp. Look at their press conferences and generally what they tell players. They say how good the players are "we have a great group of players here" etc. From Nigel we get comments about how we can't afford anything better, we get comments about how often a player lost the ball, how he didn't work hard enough. I can't think of the last time he came out and said something positive about our squad, maybe Mason Bennett as a young talent? I don't care if he thinks they're good or not, the players need to know they're believed in and they need to have the confidence. It's no wonder one defeat generally leads to a streak of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Did he really fall out with all those players? I think not. Maybe 3 of them. Droppins someone or selling someone isn't the same as falling out with someone. Has Clough ever "fell out" with any player? The only one I could think of is maybe Leacock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 At the minute D. I've been depressed with nearly everything that's happening at the club since Thursday. If it were up to me I'd begrudgingly tell Cloughie to clear his desk and see if Mick McCarthy fancied the job. I'd feel a lot more confident about us progressing as club. At the moment I fear a big relegation scrap coming next year. Cloughies here to stay though unless we somehow get relegated this season. I've even contemplated the idea of relegation being a good thing. You're depressed and you want to bring in Mick McCarthy? Jesus, he is definitely going to cheer everyone up! He has to be one of the most miserable men in football (oops, he's not in football because he isn't good enough). Then again, if you think relegation is a good thing then McCarthy may be the answer after all- ask Wolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil_miss_s Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Has Clough ever "fell out" with any player? The only one I could think of is maybe Leacock? Leacock even admitted that he had personal problems and apologised to fans on his facebook for letting people down in the Forest game last season as his mind wasn't on the job. I think this led to his demise from the team. Even Croft has apologised for having a bad attitude when he joined the club. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors or if Nigel has fallen out with certain players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Leacock even admitted that he had personal problems and apologised to fans on his facebook for letting people down in the Forest game last season as his mind wasn't on the job. I think this led to his demise from the team. Even Croft has apologised for having a bad attitude when he joined the club. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors or if Nigel has fallen out with certain players. If they are apologising then it shows that they are acknowledging that they are in the wrong. If Clough was falling out with players all the time I doubt that they would be apologising and I am sure we would know about it too. I think that too much emphasis is put on "falling out" - football is often a game of opinions so there are bound to be disagreements from time to time, these don't constitute a falling out just a difference of opinion which is how new ideas come about. There is no doubt that Nigel comes across as arrogant at times but so do many footballers (which is what he was not so long ago) and there will be a lot of egos at a championship which need to be kept in check. I would rather him speak his mind and be honest with the players and the media as this demands respect, players should be worried about disappointing/ angering the manager as he is their boss and they should do as he asks. If they don't then they deserve a rollicking and the fans of the club need to know that the manager won't accept players not giving 100% for the club and that he realises that below par performances shouldn't be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deirdre_Barlow Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Are you: A - Happy with everything at the moment B - Happy with the management but not the board C - Happy with the board but not the management D - Happy with neither board nor management I'll ask the audience please Wilko. Erm, based on the results I'll go with D. Final answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'll ask the audience please Wilko. Erm, based on the results I'll go with D. Final answer. Are you sure? And the answer is.......................... We'll find out after the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AucklandRam Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 You're depressed and you want to bring in Mick McCarthy? Jesus, he is definitely going to cheer everyone up! He has to be one of the most miserable men in football (oops, he's not in football because he isn't good enough). Then again, if you think relegation is a good thing then McCarthy may be the answer after all- ask Wolves He's miserable yes but IMO he'd do a better job at Derby than the present manager. Just because he was sacked by Wolves doesn't make him a bad manager. Before he took over at Wolves they were in a similar to position to us now. Hoddle had a terrible time and they were languishing in the bottom half, McCarthy came in and took them to The Prem and kept them there. Can't argue with that. It's a hypothetical point though and it's very unlikely to happen. Cloughie is here to stay unless we get relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randombc Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 like Gary Speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 like Gary Speed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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