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Current feelings?


WilkoRam

Current feelings?  

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Of course I would like a world class manager and a board that will spend millions, but since neither are a possibility I'll also go for option A.

There is no one that I would happily take over Clough if he was to go that is currently available and that would come, it would be highly unlikely we'd pay for another teams manager so would be stuck with one of the proven failures, and a proven failure we could afford managers like Mick McCarthy, Billy Davies, Alan Curbishley or Steve Coppell...etc just aren't going to buy into the plan we would probably be looking at Championship/league one managers who've been sacked recently like Phil Brown(would we go back?) Martin Allen, Lee Clark, Alan Irvine.

And then obviously every fan in the world wants a board that will lavish them with money, and cover the losses without expecting anything at all back, but unfortunately there is only 1 family and they're happy enough at man city... I would much rather carry on in the same vein that someone gamble with our future piling the losses onto the debt of the club to an amount that could seize the club in the future, obviously some fans think this is the way to go because 'we are too big to go extinct' but so were the dinosaurs! but obviously I would like to see a more substantial amount put into the first team, and instead of having 1 million pound signing a year, we could have 6-7... everyone does, but we've got to be sensible about the other financial sides with it, unless you're going to buy the club I don't see how you can moan as ive said before... if someone offers you nothing, or a 100 pound... you take the 100 pound and thank them, not moan about it only being a 100 pound and demand a 1000, especially when we ourselves aren't willing enough to do it!

Anyone who has spent any money on supporting this football club in the current era has the right to 'moan' whenever they want Ambitious. I'm sick of people always talking about dire consequences if our board dare to spend more than the peanuts they have spent already. What about Swansea? Norwich? Clubs who have spent decent fees on players and are holding their own currently in the Prem? Are they not examples of what can be achieved if you buy quality players and have quality managers?

You are probably right about the kind of managers who would come to Derby at the moment. Who would want to be paid next to nothing in the Championship with a brief to spend next to nothing to hopefully get promoted? We are patheticlally lacking in ambition from top to bottom, but for some thats ok.

We are in the middle of a perfect storm at the moment; we have a very poor manager backed by a very poor board, with neither likely to be leaving anytime soon. I honestly believe that if we carry on the way we are going, without a significant investment in quality players, we will be the most solvent club in League One within the next 2 seasons.

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He's miserable yes but IMO he'd do a better job at Derby than the present manager. Just because he was sacked by Wolves doesn't make him a bad manager. Before he took over at Wolves they were in a similar to position to us now. Hoddle had a terrible time and they were languishing in the bottom half, McCarthy came in and took them to The Prem and kept them there. Can't argue with that.

It's a hypothetical point though and it's very unlikely to happen. Cloughie is here to stay unless we get relegated.

I know where you are coming from but I really don't like the guy- almost in Warnock territory, nothing is ever his fault and he is always hard done by. Often rude in interviews for no reason also. Would be distinctly unimpressed he came here. As you say, Clough is here to stay, lets hope we look back on this in a few years and thank our stars that that the board and most of the fans stuck with him.

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Anyone who has spent any money on supporting this football club in the current era has the right to 'moan' whenever they want Ambitious. I'm sick of people always talking about dire consequences if our board dare to spend more than the peanuts they have spent already. What about Swansea? Norwich? Clubs who have spent decent fees on players and are holding their own currently in the Prem? Are they not examples of what can be achieved if you buy quality players and have quality managers?

You are probably right about the kind of managers who would come to Derby at the moment. Who would want to be paid next to nothing in the Championship with a brief to spend next to nothing to hopefully get promoted? We are patheticlally lacking in ambition from top to bottom, but for some thats ok.

We are in the middle of a perfect storm at the moment; we have a very poor manager backed by a very poor board, with neither likely to be leaving anytime soon. I honestly believe that if we carry on the way we are going, without a significant investment in quality players, we will be the most solvent club in League One within the next 2 seasons.

I agree with some of the points raised but the board and manager "very poor"? Behave. I am not saying that everything is rosy because it blatantly isn't but if they were very poor we would have very high debts (on the part of the board) and be in relegation ( on the part of the manager). We have spent very little money really in the transfer market since Nige arrived so to suggest that he is a very poor manager when we are safe from relegation (disasters permitting) is a ridiculous statement. We all want Derby to succeed and I am frustrated as the next fan at the percieved lack of investment and ambition. You may not agree with the way things are being done but that doesn't make them very poor just because they aren't doing things the way you want. If our set up is very poor what does it say about the 9 teams below us?

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I voted C.

Still think only time will tell with the board. Not happy with some of their white lies and spin but there's a chance they know what they're doing. Can't say I am unhappy with them.

With Clough, though, I just can't see any brilliance in him. He's not the worst manager we've ever had, don't get me wrong. I don't think he did a bad job his first two seasons either. He did some dirty work few other managers would be prepared to do. The first two seasons were never going to be about success, more preventing failure or disaster. Which I feel Clough helped steer us away from.

But then you look at what we are now. A squad of good, but not excellent players. Sometimes they look ok. Others, they look dreadful. There seems little rhyme or reason to it, other than one dreadful performance very oftern has another performance following it. And after that. And after that.

Then you look at some of our substitutions, like bringing on Buxton in various games. And brining on Doyle at West Ham.

Then you look at the way we played against Leicester. The performance was poor, yes, but the best way to describe it was timid - we didn't do anything to trouble them. And I'm convinced with the squad we have, we could've given a much better account of ourselves.

I don't even think Clough has made that poor signings. Yep, some have been pretty bad, but with his budget and the amount of players he's signed, that is bound to happen. He's picked out some gems. That makes our performances worse. Brayford is a shadow of the player he was last season. Bailey is a shadow of the player he could be. Frankie Fielding has forgotten how to kick. Tom Carroll looks awful. To eradicate these issues, you need man management, you need to play these players in their best positions, and you need to coach them well. Can someone please tell me if they believe Clough does all three of those well.

I can't see us going down with Clough, as he's got a hard-working bunch of competent players. There's no one in the team who I shudder when I hear their name, like Claude Davis. And the players do seem proud to wear the shirt. It's not like those Jewell, Brown or Gregory performances when you could tell the players weren't bothered.

But I can not see success with his tactics, managerial skills or coaching methods. Can you ever see this manager taking us in to Europe? Or seeing out a title challenge in this league?

Do you think Stoke ever saw Pulis taking them in to Europe? No, but he was given time.

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Do you think Stoke ever saw Pulis taking them in to Europe? No, but he was given time.

Time and Stability the two words constantly used to justify Nigel's continued employment. We don't want to change, we need stability. We need to give him time. Nothing about, we look better under him, we seem a better team, we're playing well despite results. Nope just plain old stability and the hope that it all comes good over time.

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Time and Stability the two words constantly used to justify Nigel's continued employment. We don't want to change, we need stability. We need to give him time. Nothing about, we look better under him, we seem a better team, we're playing well despite results. Nope just plain old stability and the hope that it all comes good over time.

Well for what it's worth I think the team is better and the football is better than when he first took charge.

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Well for what it's worth I think the team is better and the football is better than when he first took charge.

Really? Apart from a purple patch last season I really don't see it.

I'm just down about the whole club at the moment. I'm resigned to not only losing games but to probably not scoring. I'm resigned to us finishing bottom half of the table again. It's all very depressing and it comes from a team that on the whole is depressing to watch.

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Really? Apart from a purple patch last season I really don't see it.

I'm just down about the whole club at the moment. I'm resigned to not only losing games but to probably not scoring. I'm resigned to us finishing bottom half of the table again. It's all very depressing and it comes from a team that on the whole is depressing to watch.

I'm not necessarily saying that's all Clough's doing, I just think we were in a position where it couldn't have got much worse, so it had to improve. Under Jewell I never thought we'd look like giving battling displays like we did against forest and Birmingham, and good football like we did against West Ham and Millwall. Our good play is limited this season, but under Jewell in this division it was non existent.

We're in a bad patch at the moment, I don't question that for a second, but we've been in these bad patches before. I know we're an average team doing an average job, but I do think there's more to it in terms of the future that makes it worthwhile having some hope.

Otherwise, what's the point? And I think that's what alot of people are asking at the moment.

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I know it's not what you were saying but I do think that Nigel is getting more praise than he would have due to how poor Jewell was. If he'd have taken over after Burley, for example, and we were now playing like this then I think there'd be a fair few more ignoring his name and calling for a change.

He's said "We got in some brilliant situations against Leicester" really? When was that? He goes on to say about players trying something spectacular and they shouldn't as you have to play the percentages. In this respect he's on about not trying a 30 yard screamer. I tend to agree in that respect, just can't help but feel that he means it in relation to all play.....don't try anything spectacular.

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I'm not necessarily saying that's all Clough's doing, I just think we were in a position where it couldn't have got much worse, so it had to improve. Under Jewell I never thought we'd look like giving battling displays like we did against forest and Birmingham, and good football like we did against West Ham and Millwall. Our good play is limited this season, but under Jewell in this division it was non existent.

We're in a bad patch at the moment, I don't question that for a second, but we've been in these bad patches before. I know we're an average team doing an average job, but I do think there's more to it in terms of the future that makes it worthwhile having some hope.

Otherwise, what's the point? And I think that's what alot of people are asking at the moment.

That's not entiley true.. And it's easy to say that without taking a look at it.. Every manager we've had, whether good or bad, we've always had a purple patch.. It happens.

During our season here in the NPC under Jewell despite picking up 1 point from the first 4 games we went on to only lose 2 of the next 13 including a 7 game unbeaten run..

During this run it included winning 1-2 away at Norwich despite having a GK sent off just after HT and pegged back to 1-1.. We showed battling qualities to go on and get the 3 points.. Also during this run, we picked up valuable points by scoring a late equalizer at home to Brum (1-1) and late winners away at QPR (0-2) and Norwich (1-2).. Other proof of 'battling qualities'. We also comfortably beat Norwich at home 3-1 and Sheffield Wednesday at home 3-0 playing some fairly decent football..

We were 9th after that, it only really got away from us the following months of November and December where we picked up only 5 points (1 win and 2 draws) from 9 games and Jewell was gone with us back in 19th.. (erm remarkably similar to our collapse under NC last year)

People are too easy to brush away our other managers but on the whole NC is only a few points ahead of where we were at this stage under previous managers.. In other words he's a lucky win at Watford and Hull ahead of past years.

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I know it's not what you were saying but I do think that Nigel is getting more praise than he would have due to how poor Jewell was. If he'd have taken over after Burley, for example, and we were now playing like this then I think there'd be a fair few more ignoring his name and calling for a change.

He's said "We got in some brilliant situations against Leicester" really? When was that? He goes on to say about players trying something spectacular and they shouldn't as you have to play the percentages. In this respect he's on about not trying a 30 yard screamer. I tend to agree in that respect, just can't help but feel that he means it in relation to all play.....don't try anything spectacular.

And I think therein lies the problem.

He didn't take over after Burley, with a great squad. He took over from Jewell with a bunch of rubbish, half of it overpaid, the other half totally devoid of any confidence and a board who had decided that radical action, from a financial perspective, needed to be taken. Far from an easy gig.

The name thing doesn't really matter at all to me. I wasn't even an idea when his Dad won the league, so it's difficult for me to have too much attachment to the Clough name. I just think the job isn't complete yet, and whoever inherits this situation will probably be getting these very same comments in three years time.

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That's not entiley true.. And it's easy to say that without taking a look at it.. Every manager we've had, whether good or bad, we've always had a purple patch.. It happens.

During our season here in the NPC under Jewell despite picking up 1 point from the first 4 games we went on to only lose 2 of the next 13 including a 7 game unbeaten run..

During this run it included winning 1-2 away at Norwich despite having a GK sent off just after HT and pegged back to 1-1.. We showed battling qualities to go on and get the 3 points.. Also during this run, we picked up valuable points by scoring a late equalizer at home to Brum (1-1) and late winners away at QPR (0-2) and Norwich (1-2).. Other proof of 'battling qualities'. We also comfortably beat Norwich at home 3-1 and Sheffield Wednesday at home 3-0 playing some fairly decent football..

We were 9th after that, it only really got away from us the following months of November and December where we picked up only 5 points (1 win and 2 draws) from 9 games and Jewell was gone with us back in 19th.. (erm remarkably similar to our collapse under NC last year)

People are too easy to brush away our other managers but on the whole NC is only a few points ahead of where we were at this stage under previous managers.. In other words he's a lucky win at Watford and Hull ahead of past years.

But he is ahead - just to be clear...

If it was any other manager you'd have called them battling away displays, with Clough they're 'lucky 1-0's'.

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But he is ahead - just to be clear...

If it was any other manager you'd have called them battling away displays, with Clough they're 'lucky 1-0's'.

Just like you implied we had no battling qualities or decent play under Jewell?

There's a difference between a battling display and being completely played off the park for 90 minutes and somehow winning..

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Just like you implied we had no battling qualities or decent play under Jewell?

There's a difference between a battling display and being completely played off the park for 90 minutes and somehow winning..

Well how did it somehow happen? You need to battle defensively in order to shut a team out.

And I didn't see much battling going on when he took over, we were pretty much relegated. Under Davies we had a slim to none chance of survival. 3 games in to Jewell being here and I was already ready for the following August.

Look at him now - he's got a team full of players that on paper would probably get in to our team - Bowyer, Bullard, Scotland, Chopra, Cresswell, Emmanual-Thomas - yet they sit two points below us. Imagine if he had to deal with selling Commons and Hulse, the bloke would have locked himself in a dark room and shook himself to sleep.

You don't have to look too far to see it could be a whole lot worse.

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And I think therein lies the problem.

He didn't take over after Burley, with a great squad.

But Burley made that squad and made it under difficult financial constraints. It's not like Burley walked into a great job with a great board. He didn't hide behind excuses or keep saying 'their squad cost more'. Nigel has a job to do, he should do it and forget about what other teams have. He should be looking at his own setup and asking 'are we finding the best and getting the best from those we find.'

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But Burley made that squad and made it under difficult financial constraints. It's not like Burley walked into a great job with a great board. He didn't hide behind excuses or keep saying 'their squad cost more'. Nigel has a job to do, he should do it and forget about what other teams have. He should be looking at his own setup and asking 'are we finding the best and getting the best from those we find.'

The answer to that is 'yes', in my opinion.

I do genuinely believe they are dedicated to bringing youth players in to the first team, obviously there's a financial benefit but also it makes perfect sense. For every game now we don't buy a striker, Callum Ball, who has clearly got potential to be a good player, is getting game time. That can't be a bad thing, in the long run, I don't mind this bad patch we're in, providing there's an end game. Some don't think there is, and others do, I just happen to think there is.

Also I really don't think Clough can be compared to Burley. Didn't he sign Tommy Smith? Just the kind of player that Clough had to sell (Commons)?

I'm not overly fussed who is manager, as long they are better than Clough. If my season ticket money gets spent on paying out Clough and replacing him with another relatively unproven manager, then I'll be alot more disgruntled as a supporter than I am now. And this board won't pay bigger wages than he's on.

By the way - 'didn't he sign Tommy Smith' is a serious question - I can't remember.

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I voted C.

...

I completely agree regarding the first two years because we could have so easily fallen into League One with a crippling £20m p/a wage bill without Clough.

Also, I just can't envisage success with this manager.

The depressing thing is that even with the amazing start we had, I just knew, just knew, that it would inevitably go tits up. And it did.

I'm fed up of the one steps forward two steps back journey of this team as well.

As well as this Clough's bizarre decisions just infuriate me at times. I'm not a manager, in fact I can barely kick a ball, but I don't see the logic in putting players out of position (e.g Green at RB) when you have sufficient cover in the squad.

I still think his treatment of Cywka after the loss at Forest was disgraceful and unforgivable. The whole team played awfully that night but he chose to victimise and bully Cywka.

I just don't think it's right to have someone who did that, as well as implement his own naughty step policy with Maguire, in charge of this team.

However the problem, and I've thought and talked about this a lot, is that there's an idea of "who else will want to come here?" I think it's wrong that he's still in the job because we can't get anyone else better.

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By the way - 'didn't he sign Tommy Smith' is a serious question - I can't remember.

He did, for free. He also had to lose expensive players in Ravanelli, Kinkladze, Burley. We finished 20th in his first full season where he relied on loans mainly. Then his 2nd season he signed, Rasiak - Free, Idiakez - Free, Bisgaard - Free, Reich - Free, Smith - Free. And he promoted youth, Grant, Mills, Huddlestone, Tudgay. We finished 4th. Nigel has spent a lot more that Burley did and we're not asking for play-offs just top half. Is that really too much to expect? Burley was a great manager for us under the circumstances and I don't expect Nigel to emulate him to that level but he's far below the expected level. 3 seasons, no where near as good in terms of transfers

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