I'M SO ANGRY WITH CLOUGH

[ilkleyram]

And I'm fairly sure that everytime one of those invested in the club does come over, I bet Derby are paying a Business/First Class Air fare for them!

To Ilklyram - Sensible post but reading it, I just can't help but feel you are another one of the fans who just seems happy with mid-table football. That was the impression I got reading it.

I don't see any improvement since when Clough started. I see nothing on the pitch, in the coaching and improvement of players or off the field which warrants me supporting Clough or GSE. I will support the players on a Saturday but I will also boo as its one of the only limited legal ways to vent my frustration at Clough/GSE.

I don't want to be an average club playing in a poor league when I feel we should be a Premier League Club playing in the best league in the world.

Fianlly - I do believe that a number of managers would work their socks off for our club and would travel the length and breadth of the country to watch under 18's, reserve games and 1st team games. No dsirespect but apart from their own personal time, it nots like they are paying for it themselves - oh and I bet Clough is taking home £4k a week minimum!

rammieib - i am nearly in my 50th year of watching our team, mostly with season tickets, and have in that time seen many lows and many highs. I desperately want my son to experience some of the pure joy I have had in going to a match in the top league of this country to wonder not whether we will win but how many we will win by - week after week after week. It was like that for a few years.

My dislike of all things Premier League is that I think that is unlikley to happen because of the financial differences that now exist, not only between the PL and other leagues but also within the PL itself. It is, in my view, no longer a single league as such but about four leagues within one. No proper competition therefore when most of the teams involved have no chance of winning.

The Championship, for all its failings is a league proper - where one team can beat another, top or bottom, home or away. And I love it as a competition and enjoy watching, home and away.

But do I want mid table mediocrity? No. Do I want us to go up? Yes. But do I want us to prosper when we do go up? Yes. Our last PL season was the most dispiriting year I have ever had as a Rams fan, and I have seen a few.

I beg to differ with you. I think we have made some progress, as a club, a group of players and as a team. It isn't quick but with the board's strategy it never was going to be. And that is frustrating at times. But like others on here it is my drug of choice. I can't imagine ever not going nor booing. I respect your right to do either and i understand the frustration but my view is that people in any walk of life tend to perform better when encouraged, sometimes when there is little reason to do so!

[VulcanRam]

I dislike:

The way we bring everyone back to defend a corner when there's absolutely no need

The way our coaching staff seem to make players worse

The overriding sense of mediocrity that seems to be pervading our club

The fact I look at our players individually and think, every week, they should be better collectively than they are

Thinking we've got no realistic prospect of challenging for promotion. Again.

Seeing no end in sight for all of the above

On the other hand, I like:

Getting out the of the house on a Saturday afternoon!

[Guest]

rammieib - i am nearly in my 50th year of watching our team, mostly with season tickets, and have in that time seen many lows and many highs. I desperately want my son to experience some of the pure joy I have had in going to a match in the top league of this country to wonder not whether we will win but how many we will win by - week after week after week. It was like that for a few years.

My dislike of all things Premier League is that I think that is unlikley to happen because of the financial differences that now exist, not only between the PL and other leagues but also within the PL itself. It is, in my view, no longer a single league as such but about four leagues within one. No proper competition therefore when most of the teams involved have no chance of winning.

The Championship, for all its failings is a league proper - where one team can beat another, top or bottom, home or away. And I love it as a competition and enjoy watching, home and away.

But do I want mid table mediocrity? No. Do I want us to go up? Yes. But do I want us to prosper when we do go up? Yes. Our last PL season was the most dispiriting year I have ever had as a Rams fan, and I have seen a few.

I beg to differ with you. I think we have made some progress, as a club, a group of players and as a team. It isn't quick but with the board's strategy it never was going to be. And that is frustrating at times. But like others on here it is my drug of choice. I can't imagine ever not going nor booing. I respect your right to do either and i understand the frustration but my view is that people in any walk of life tend to perform better when encouraged, sometimes when there is little reason to do so!

I disagree, I love the fact that we are one of a few clubs that can claim to have won the top title, I think it would be a travesty to the genius of the men who take their little club to these heights against the big clubs if it was easy to win. I think its great that teams like Stoke have taken europe by storm and have players like Crouch and co playing for them.

I think the Championship football we watch is dire, we have now got a team that sets its stall out not to lose, rather than attack, we hail a striker whose first touch is like a donkeys, and we rate players on how much they run rather than what skill they have.

I dont boo, and I will continue to go week in and week out, but do I look forward to it anymore, the pre and post match yes, the actual match no, and I cant think of one match (barring the red dogs) where it has been a pleasure to watch.

In short, we have not progressed over the 3 years, we have become stagnant, we will not progress over the next three years either, as much as a dissapointment the PL season was, I would welcome the thought of tackling it again, the reality is that it may be another dire season, but as opposed to what we are seeing now, at least I would see quality at PP once again.

[ladyram]

And I'm fairly sure that everytime one of those invested in the club does come over, I bet Derby are paying a Business/First Class Air fare for them!

To Ilklyram - Sensible post but reading it, I just can't help but feel you are another one of the fans who just seems happy with mid-table football. That was the impression I got reading it.

I don't see any improvement since when Clough started. I see nothing on the pitch, in the coaching and improvement of players or off the field which warrants me supporting Clough or GSE. I will support the players on a Saturday but I will also boo as its one of the only limited legal ways to vent my frustration at Clough/GSE.

I don't want to be an average club playing in a poor league when I feel we should be a Premier League Club playing in the best league in the world.

Fianlly - I do believe that a number of managers would work their socks off for our club and would travel the length and breadth of the country to watch under 18's, reserve games and 1st team games. No dsirespect but apart from their own personal time, it nots like they are paying for it themselves - oh and I bet Clough is taking home £4k a week minimum!

Don't you think that although your booing is aimed at (in your words) Clough /The Board - that it does the players absolutely no good whatsoever and I'll even go so far as to say it has a detrimental effect on players as individuals and as a team.

It achieves nothing, is completely counter productive and does nobody any good.

[Asanovic]

'please leave'

'I would like Clough to leave'

'He's too defensive'

'He's clueless'

Why do I hardly ever hear you lot on a matchday, apart from a few little moans? If you feel that strongly, mek yersen a big banner or something.

[Duracell]

I don't think we can do anything about clough or g.s.e, the only way is to stay at home and voice our displeasure. Since we keep going to games, and about 50% say he needs more time despite 3 years of being at the helm, and similar positions held in the table with no sign of improvement. Nothing is going to change and I am resigned to that.

Have we tried anything, apart from a disgruntled gathering outside the Toyota Stand? Blackburn are showing how you protest, and we have it so much worse than them.

Derby fans moan themselves into the ground. Why are we so passive? I'm not a fan of booing, but we even do that half-heartedly.

[BOB BIGGS]

rammieib - i am nearly in my 50th year of watching our team, mostly with season tickets, and have in that time seen many lows and many highs. I desperately want my son to experience some of the pure joy I have had in going to a match in the top league of this country to wonder not whether we will win but how many we will win by - week after week after week. It was like that for a few years.

My dislike of all things Premier League is that I think that is unlikley to happen because of the financial differences that now exist, not only between the PL and other leagues but also within the PL itself. It is, in my view, no longer a single league as such but about four leagues within one. No proper competition therefore when most of the teams involved have no chance of winning.

The Championship, for all its failings is a league proper - where one team can beat another, top or bottom, home or away. And I love it as a competition and enjoy watching, home and away.

But do I want mid table mediocrity? No. Do I want us to go up? Yes. But do I want us to prosper when we do go up? Yes. Our last PL season was the most dispiriting year I have ever had as a Rams fan, and I have seen a few.

I beg to differ with you. I think we have made some progress, as a club, a group of players and as a team. It isn't quick but with the board's strategy it never was going to be. And that is frustrating at times. But like others on here it is my drug of choice. I can't imagine ever not going nor booing. I respect your right to do either and i understand the frustration but my view is that people in any walk of life tend to perform better when encouraged, sometimes when there is little reason to do so!

Great post ilkley. I don't think you'll attract too many admirers on here though because you are being a little too realistic and sensible. Can you imagine the reaction if we got back up and had another nightmare like we had with Davies in charge at the start of that season.

So far this season, we been around average at times, poor at times and not very impressive at all. We lie below half way. However, even when we were picking up points at the start, we weren't doing it in sufficient style for many folks. That's probably true. So, I can't see why people are saying how great it would be to see real quality again at PP, if we end up being hammered most of the time because we haven't got enough dosh to compete. It would be a disaster if we got anywhere near the Premiership. As it happens, I don't believe the Board have the slightest interest in backing us to do that at the moment - hence the mid-table look about our players. That's what most of them are and that's what we are paying them to be.

I can appreciate the frustrations of those who haven't been as lucky as we were to be around in the 70s. That said, it seems we are able to assess the present situation better than some who think that the flick of a switch financially or managerially will produce instant results. It doesn't happen that way most of the time. Perhaps age and experience brings about a more reasoned approach to life in general 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Bris Vegas]

'please leave'

'I would like Clough to leave'

'He's too defensive'

'He's clueless'

Why do I hardly ever hear you lot on a matchday, apart from a few little moans? If you feel that strongly, mek yersen a big banner or something.

Perhaps alot of fans that don't like the current regime have stayed away.. Attendances are at their lowest this year since 04/05 I think..

Also those that bring banners are ******.. Who the feck does that (apart from ****** + a few Blackburn fans)

In the past when we wanted rid of Jewell, Gregory, Brown, Todd etc.. We never used to bring banners, so why would we now? People know this board aren't going to get rid of Clough... So you've got two options, go to PP hoping for a miracle that NC plays attacking positive possession football or stay away..

[Guest]

Great post ilkley. I don't think you'll attract too many admirers on here though because you are being a little too realistic and sensible. Can you imagine the reaction if we got back up and had another nightmare like we had with Davies in charge at the start of that season.

So far this season, we been around average at times, poor at times and not very impressive at all. We lie below half way. However, even when we were picking up points at the start, we weren't doing it in sufficient style for many folks. That's probably true. So, I can't see why people are saying how great it would be to see real quality again at PP, if we end up being hammered most of the time because we haven't got enough dosh to compete. It would be a disaster if we got anywhere near the Premiership. As it happens, I don't believe the Board have the slightest interest in backing us to do that at the moment - hence the mid-table look about our players. That's what most of them are and that's what we are paying them to be.

I can appreciate the frustrations of those who haven't been as lucky as we were to be around in the 70s. That said, it seems we are able to assess the present situation better than some who think that the flick of a switch financially or managerially will produce instant results. It doesn't happen that way most of the time. Perhaps age and experience brings about a more reasoned approach to life in general 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Sorry I dont understand where you are coming from, are you saying we should be happy at being poor and mid table at best, or have I missed what this reasoned approach is ?

Its not a case of flicking a switch, we have had 3 years of this, and I cant still see what direction the club are heading in, our owners dont even come and watch us, we have a board who are consultants paid a nice tidy sum for running our club.

Also are you saying that if we did get promoted that Clough would not be the man to lead us as he is not good enough, many clubs including blackpool last year have made a good account of themselves without the money available, some have even managed to stay up.

[inglorious02]

Have we tried anything, apart from a disgruntled gathering outside the Toyota Stand? Blackburn are showing how you protest, and we have it so much worse than them.

Derby fans moan themselves into the ground. Why are we so passive? I'm not a fan of booing, but we even do that half-heartedly.

Why don't we all start going to Mickleover Sports games instead? Get them to change their name to FC Derby or Derby City FC perhaps?

[Asanovic]

Perhaps alot of fans that don't like the current regime have stayed away.. Attendances are at their lowest this year since 04/05 I think..

Also those that bring banners are ******.. Who the feck does that (apart from ****** + a few Blackburn fans)

In the past when we wanted rid of Jewell, Gregory, Brown, Todd etc.. We never used to bring banners, so why would we now? People know this board aren't going to get rid of Clough... So you've got two options, go to PP hoping for a miracle that NC plays attacking positive possession football or stay away..

I do hear muttering - just nowhere as much abuse as he gets on this forum.

And if you don't watch the matches, what right have you got to come on this forum and criticise the performance? I suppose every right, but don't expect your opinion to be taken seriously. It's like slating a film you haven't watched. Half the people that ring Radio Derby 'listened to it on the radio today'!

Also, attendances are down everywhere - not every club has so many fickle supporters, or such a **** manager, depending where you sit with your views.

Jewell, Gregory etc took us down, and got close to taking us down a second time. This isn't as black and white as the Clough nay sayers like to make it out, because he has done some good things, in impossible circumstances - as well as some bad things.

[bcnram]

Sorry I dont understand where you are coming from, are you saying we should be happy at being poor and mid table at best, or have I missed what this reasoned approach is ?

Its not a case of flicking a switch, we have had 3 years of this, and I cant still see what direction the club are heading in, our owners dont even come and watch us, we have a board who are consultants paid a nice tidy sum for running our club.

Also are you saying that if we did get promoted that Clough would not be the man to lead us as he is not good enough, many clubs including blackpool last year have made a good account of themselves without the money available, some have even managed to stay up.

I think you are not correct about the composition of the board. Four of the owners sit on the board plus the FD, Tom Glick and Brett Wilsons right hand man.

[Bris Vegas]

I do hear muttering - just nowhere as much abuse as he gets on this forum.

And if you don't watch the matches, what right have you got to come on this forum and criticise the performance? I suppose every right, but don't expect your opinion to be taken seriously. It's like slating a film you haven't watched. Half the people that ring Radio Derby 'listened to it on the radio today'!

Also, attendances are down everywhere - not every club has so many fickle supporters, or such a **** manager, depending where you sit with your views.

Jewell, Gregory etc took us down, and got close to taking us down a second time. This isn't as black and white as the Clough nay sayers like to make it out, because he has done some good things, in impossible circumstances - as well as some bad things.

But those that stay away don't feel it's worth the money (I'm just guessing here) But that doesn't mean they don't watch the games via the telly or Rams Player..

I don't go to the games but have seen all of them via Rams Player, I'd hope to think that my opinion is just as valid as a season ticket holder at PP..

I'm not saying that these forums represent the general thoughts of the majaroty but I guess perhaps whilst people are unhappy they still toddle along expecting or waiting for something to change..

[Asanovic]

But those that stay away don't feel it's worth the money (I'm just guessing here) But that doesn't mean they don't watch the games via the telly or Rams Player..

I don't go to the games but have seen all of them via Rams Player, I'd hope to think that my opinion is just as valid as a season ticket holder at PP..

I'm not saying that these forums represent the general thoughts of the majaroty but I guess perhaps whilst people are unhappy they still toddle along expecting or waiting for something to change..

Yep, to me your opinion is as valid as anyone who watches the games live. My gripe is with people who waste their money ringing Radio Derby and complain when they probably couldn't even name the team that started.

I don't believe that all, most or even half the people that have ramsplayer do so because they're not happy enough with the state of things to bother going.

My take on it is that people have big words and big ideas behind a keyboard, but perhaps aren't actually that desperately unhappy.

[Leeds Ram]

Have we tried anything, apart from a disgruntled gathering outside the Toyota Stand? Blackburn are showing how you protest, and we have it so much worse than them.

Derby fans moan themselves into the ground. Why are we so passive? I'm not a fan of booing, but we even do that half-heartedly.

derby fans are passive because of 10 years of underachievement almost every season we struggle. The Blakcburn fans have protested but it has achieved nothing, Keane is still there.

[Asanovic]

derby fans are passive because of 10 years of underachievement almost every season we struggle. The Blakcburn fans have protested but it has achieved nothing, Keane is still there.

He probably won't be after tonight.

[Asanovic]

Have we tried anything, apart from a disgruntled gathering outside the Toyota Stand? Blackburn are showing how you protest, and we have it so much worse than them.

Derby fans moan themselves into the ground. Why are we so passive? I'm not a fan of booing, but we even do that half-heartedly.

I'm laughing, hoping this is sarcasm?!

[Leeds Ram]

He probably won't be after tonight.

you never know,mind you he can't go on forever with results like this.

[CumbrianRam]

He probably won't be after tonight.

you never know,mind you he can't go on forever with results like this.

Neither can the media darling Coyle at Bolton.

[Guest]

Bcnram, we pay GSE a tidy sum, look at their website and that will explain the consultants comment.

As a matter of intrest, why do we pay GSE?