UEFA Euro 2024 Thread

[Alty_Ram]

5 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

But does it matter if we win in 90 or 120, as long as we win. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

We finished 2nd in our group in 2018 and had a far easier run.

Sven’s 2002 group was dubbed the group of death at the time with Argentina, Nigeria and Sweden.

A far cry from Iran, USA, Wales, Panama and Tunisia.

I think we have a better squad now. Others may disagree. We had a better left-back and centre-backs under Sven, but we have a better right-back, midfield and wide forwards now.

Our bench options are far better now. Back then we were bringing on Emile Heskey and Darius Vassell. 

 

Just for balance and to compare to your post, would that happen to be Sweden that were ranked 18th at the time and Nigeria that were ranked 35th?

 

[Bris Vegas]

6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just for balance and to compare to your post, would that happen to be Sweden that were ranked 18th at the time and Nigeria that were ranked 35th?

 

So about the same as Southgate’s quarter-final opponents then?

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

So about the same as Southgate’s quarter-final opponents then?

Correct, the ones you was talking down whilst calling Sweden and Nigeria the group of death. Can't have it both ways.

[Alph]

It's not the worst thing in the world to beat all the teams except the very best ones. That shows about where we are? 

Sven was s****. Without context he looks pretty good. He was s****. 

So Southgate has lost to France, Italy and Croatia in semi finals and a final. Would we feel better if he'd beat France and lost to Iceland? Or 10 man Brazil. 

Beating who you should beat and losing to equal sides seems an odd stick to beat Southgate with? 

He's annoying the hell out of me this tournament. It seems like he's gone full on Nigel Clough introvert style. However, Sven was dog s****.

[Alph]

 

 

[Bris Vegas]

21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Correct, the ones you was talking down whilst calling Sweden and Nigeria the group of death. Can't have it both ways.

What both ways am I trying to have? It's simple logic.

The groups are seeded. England back in 2002 would have been a first or second seed. I think we were second and Argentina first, or the other way round, with Sweden (top 20 ranked) and Nigeria (AFCON runner-up) too. That's why it was dubbed a group a death. We weren't paired with sides ranked 40+ like Tunisia, Panama or Iran. 

When you get to the quarter-final, in many cases it's group winner vs group winner. And most group winners are ranked in the top 10. In Southgate's case, in 3 tournaments, he has faced two sides ranked around 20th (a second seed) and one around 30th (a third seed).

Southgate's 1/4 final opponents are the sort of opponents you'd expect to face in the group stages. Sweden, Ukraine and Switzerland aren't 'easy' opponents per se, but they are the sort of teams who usually get knocked out in the group stages, last 16 or 1/4 at best. They are easy 1/4 opponents as opposed to teams you'd expect to face at the 1/4 stage (1st seed group winners).

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

What both ways am I trying to have? It's simple logic.

The groups are seeded. England back in 2002 would have been a first or second seed. I think we were second and Argentina first, or the other way round, with Sweden (top 20 ranked) and Nigeria (AFCON runner-up) too. That's why it was dubbed a group a death. We weren't paired with sides ranked 40+ like Tunisia, Panama or Iran. 

When you get to the quarter-final, in many cases it's group winner vs group winner. And most group winners are ranked in the top 10. In Southgate's case, in 3 tournaments, he has faced two sides ranked around 20th (a second seed) and one around 30th (a third seed).

Southgate's 1/4 final opponents are the sort of opponents you'd expect to face in the group stages. Sweden, Ukraine and Switzerland aren't 'easy' opponents per se, but they are the sort of teams who usually get knocked out in the group stages, last 16 or 1/4 at best. They are easy 1/4 opponents as opposed to teams you'd expect to face at the 1/4 stage (1st seed group winners).

 

You're describing a group with teams ranked 18th and 35th as some sort of group of death and then going on to say a QF against a team ranked 19th is basically an easy tie.

That doesn't seem like simple logic to me.

That seems to be very contradictory.

[Bris Vegas]

22 minutes ago, Alph said:

It's not the worst thing in the world to beat all the teams except the very best ones. That shows about where we are? 

Sven was s****. Without context he looks pretty good. He was s****. 

So Southgate has lost to France, Italy and Croatia in semi finals and a final. Would we feel better if he'd beat France and lost to Iceland? Or 10 man Brazil. 

Beating who you should beat and losing to equal sides seems an odd stick to beat Southgate with? 

He's annoying the hell out of me this tournament. It seems like he's gone full on Nigel Clough introvert style. However, Sven was dog s****.

Sven never lost to sides he shouldn't beat. His win % is better than Southgate's in that regard. 

Southgate wouldn't even still be here IF he faced Croatia, France, Italy or Belgium in the earlier rounds. I'm not knocking Southgate for winning games. Imagine if we actually got knocked out by Tunisia, Panama, Wales, USA or Iran?

I just don't think he has performed any better than Sven. The only metric Southgate has is going further in tournaments, but that is simply down to the luck of the draw. Saying otherwise is just pure bias IMO.

Until we beat a top 10 ranked side under Southgate, like the Dutch, I'll always remember him as another England nearly man with a record that flatters to deceive. I won't look at him as the man who guided us to finals. I'll look at him as the man who failed to beat anybody of decent standing. 

Now, some may have a different opinion. That's fine. But nobody will ever convince me that Southgate is anything more than a lucky coach with a padded record. Hopefully this changes in the next 2 games. 

[therealhantsram]

This is brillaint 🤣

 

[Bris Vegas]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You're describing a group with teams ranked 18th and 35th as some sort of group of death and then going on to say a QF against a team ranked 19th is basically an easy tie.

That doesn't seem like simple logic to me.

That seems to be very contradictory.

Did you even read what I put? With seeds, you are never going to get a World Cup group of England, Brazil, France and Spain. Obviously these are all top 10 ranked sides who are top seeds divided into different groups.

You'd mostly expect France, Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, England, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Holland etc to win their group and clash at the 1/4 stage. This obvious depends on their state at the time, as Belgium were crap 20 years ago and Germany between 2018-2024 were awful too. Surprises happen too.

Sweden and Nigeria were decent opponents at the time, but not the sort of teams you'd expect to win groups or reach the 1/4 finals. It was dubbed a group of death because they weren't Panama, Slovakia or Iran.

If you come up against a Sweden or Nigeria in the 1/4 of the World Cup, you're laughing because you've avoided a proper contender. They aren't easy opponents per se. You're not going to beat them 6-0. But they are 'easy 1/4 opponents'.

Southgate has had easier 1/4 opponents than any other England manager before him IMO. 3 times in 4 tournaments. That's luck.

[Bob Gnarly]

27 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Until we beat a top 10 ranked side under Southgate, like the Dutch,

What about Germany at the last Euros?

[Bris Vegas]

Just now, Bob Gnarly said:

What about Germany at the last Euros?

No chance. They finished bottom of their 2018 World Cup group. I was excited when Mexico beat them, until it became apparent Germany were just crap.

[Bob Gnarly]

Just now, Bris Vegas said:

No chance. They finished bottom of their 2018 World Cup group. I was excited when Mexico beat them, until it became apparent Germany were just crap.

But they were ranked in the top 10? Or is it only by your definition of quality of side?

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Did you even read what I put? With seeds, you are never going to get a World Cup group of England, Brazil, France and Spain. Obviously these are all top 10 ranked sides who are top seeds divided into different groups.

You'd mostly expect France, Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, England, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Holland etc to win their group and clash at the 1/4 stage. This obvious depends on their state at the time, as Belgium were crap 20 years ago and Germany between 2018-2024 were awful too. Surprises happen too.

Sweden and Nigeria were decent opponents at the time, but not the sort of teams you'd expect to win groups or reach the 1/4 finals. It was dubbed a group of death because they weren't Panama, Slovakia or Iran.

If you come up against a Sweden or Nigeria in the 1/4 of the World Cup, you're laughing because you've avoided a proper contender. They aren't easy opponents per se. You're not going to beat them 6-0. But they are 'easy 1/4 opponents'.

Southgate has had easier 1/4 opponents than any other England manager before him IMO. 3 times in 4 tournaments. That's luck.

Luck of the draw maybe.

Maybe if the other managers were as good as you think they would have best their opponents in the QF, especially given that they had better squads than we had now.

It could of course be that Southgate is actually doing well with what he has just not in a fashion that the Sky Generation has been told to expect?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Bob Gnarly said:

But they were ranked in the top 10? Or is it only by your definition of quality of side?

In fairness Germany were ranked 12th in the 2021 FIFA rankings (although this would have probably taken into account their early exit in the Euros, so they may well have been top 10 at the time of the game).

[Bob Gnarly]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

In fairness Germany were ranked 12th in the 2021 FIFA rankings (although this would have probably taken into account their early exit in the Euros, so they may well have been top 10 at the time of the game).

Apologies, should not have just assumed they were top 10

@Bris Vegas - Seems you are correct. 

[Bris Vegas]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Luck of the draw maybe.

Maybe if the other managers were as good as you think they would have best their opponents in the QF, especially given that they had better squads than we had now.

It could of course be that Southgate is actually doing well with what he has just not in a fashion that the Sky Generation has been told to expect?

It’s all about perception.

Brighton (A) in the 3rd round of the FA Cup is a tough draw for somebody like Liverpool.

Whereas Brighton in the semi-final in the FA Cup is a favorable draw for Liverpool.

It’s the same opponent. But one is tough at a certain stage (given potential opponents) and one is easy at another stage (given potential opponents).

Sweden in the group stage is tough because they aren’t Panama. Sweden in the 1/4 is favorable because they aren’t France.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Let's just look forward to Spain v France tonight.

I want Spain to win because France have been so horridly dull this tournament.

 

[kevinhectoring]

Just after the last euros we had a bloke come round to fix the oven. Just a few days before he’d been down at Harry Kane’s house fixing a much fancier oven. Harry was at home resting after the competition. While the guy was working away, Harry walked into the kitchen to make himself a cup of tea. He obviously thought he needed to say something to the guy, so he asked him: ‘Do you do this for a living ?’

We’ve got no chance