When did the championship become a poor league?

[TuffLuff]

I think this is my main takeaway from yesterdays games. Started at 12 about to watch Stoke Vs Hull and was thinking how wrong it was for Sky Sports to have something like a two hour build up to the North London derby when you’ve got what should be a decent game on Fwiw, I’ve thought this before when they’ve got an SPL game on and I think it’s a large part of what’s wrong with the SSPrem, SSFootball, SS MainEvent model. It would be better exposure for those leagues to have those games on as part of your full days coverage!

But after watching it, I don’t know if I can honestly say I’m convinced by that argument anymore. Hull were ok but it wasn’t really a convincing performance despite it being a 3-1 away win. Hull are now fourth and I think that is saying more about the league than to how good Hull look. Take Stoke yesterday as the example, in that they looked lost, unbalanced and unmotivated. I honestly think if Derby had produced that on a Sunday 12 o clock ko we’d be giving them a bit more than a few boos around the stadium. They were just abject. How many other clubs are really just treading water with managers who haven’t achieved anything or living on a last glory? How many sides in that league are actually worth watching? The finances of these clubs, as we well know, are ultimately playing a huge part in all this but I do think in part it’s an easy crutch for some of these managers who go club to club not doing an awful lot. Russell Martin may be sacked from Southampton but what’s the money that he ends up at Swansea or a mid table champ club when that happens? It’s a modern equivalent of the managerial merry go round 15-20 years ago. 

The knock on effect to this is now what we are seeing currently at the bottom of the prem. Sheffield United look poor with a manager out of his depth, a team like Luton can get promoted out the champ who don’t seem ready for that jump and Burnley who can probably get out of the relegation zone but need to pick up points. Yes the championship is a very open league but it’s all football purgatory and the effort it takes to get out of it is seen as the final battle rather than just the beginning. That’s how Derby treated it in 07/08 and it’s increasingly becoming the norm.

[richinspain]

I'm sure @Red_Dawn will tell you that survival in the Prem is no big deal.

[TuffLuff]

37 minutes ago, richinspain said:

I'm sure @Red_Dawn will tell you that survival in the Prem is no big deal.

I think Forest did the only thing that was weirdly smart in that they spent a lot of money on players to rebuild very quick, they replaced not only their loans but a bulk of what had got them promoted, did it give them a surivival mindset rather than one to think they had already achieved?

We can say it was an irresponsible approach, when you go out and lay £42 million on MGW, how much has that impacted the inflation on prices this year? We can also say that most of them aren’t very good players and there is a lot of wasted money but the scatter gun approach so far has worked for them. In the short term at least anyway, it’s whether it’ll work long term that’ll be more questionable.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by TuffLuff

[Red_Dawn]

19 hours ago, richinspain said:

I'm sure @Red_Dawn will tell you that survival in the Prem is no big deal.

Quite the contrary. It's ridiculously hard, and the struggles of this year's trio highlight that. 

Until we got up here, I didn't grasp how big the gap is. You can romp home to runaway winners of the championship but still seriously struggle in the PL. Look at Burnley and less recently, the likes of Norwich. Even more so if you've come up through the playoffs or in a weaker season; which, I think the championships was last year.

We were criticised for signing 200 players last year (and I can certainly see why) but in all honesty, we needed to. I stand by what I said at the time. No team coming up from the championship was as ill prepared for PL life as NFFC back in 21/22, bar maybe Blackpool and of course, yourselves. 

Last season was an enormous accomplishment. 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Red_Dawn

[Red_Dawn]

18 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I think Forest did the only thing that was weirdly smart in that they spent a lot of money on players to rebuild very quick, they replaced not only their loans but a bulk of what had got them promoted, did it give them a surivival mindset rather than one to think they had already achieved?

We can say it was an irresponsible approach, when you go out and lay £42 million on MGW, how much has that impacted the inflation on prices this year? We can also say that most of them aren’t very good players and there is a lot of wasted money but the scatter gun approach so far has worked for them. In the short term at least anyway, it’s whether it’ll work long term that’ll be more questionable.

 

With every transfer spree some will work out, some won't. We had enough that were enormous successes to keep us up.

For every Shelvey, Wood, Richards and Biancone, there was an Awoniyi, MGW, Felipe or Henderson/Navas. 

Nature of the game. 

[Ram-Alf]

20 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Russell Martin may be sacked from Southampton but what’s the money that he ends up at Swansea or a mid table champ club when that happens? It’s a modern equivalent of the managerial merry go round 15-20 years ago. 

 

He left Swansea to go to Southampton, As for the Championship it's being going downhill for a few years now...imo, I watched around 20mins of Coventry Vs Huddersfield last night...not impressed so watched Dads Army...Again ☺️

David Wagner at Norwich is having a bad time, Carrick at the Curley ones team, Sheff Wed too are finding life difficult, The gap is getting wider and wider to the promised land of milk and honey 🙄

The further down the Pyramid you go the worse it gets 👍

[RadioactiveWaste]

The consolidation of money and power in the hands of a few is not a bug, it's a feature of how football has been run for 30 years.

Edited September 26, 2023 by RadioactiveWaste

[MarsdenRam]

It looks like the gap between Prem and the Champ is widening. There needs to be an end to parachute payments and a more equitable sharing out of the TV money. Otherwise, the PL becomes  just an international exhibition league based in the UK but with no real connection to the rest of English football.

By the way Dawnie, Forest's role in the Prem is pretty much like the The Washington Generals, who are only there to make The Harlem Globetrotters look good. You've not got the class to maintain top flight football pal, so enjoy it while you can.

[Red_Dawn]

2 hours ago, MarsdenRam said:

It looks like the gap between Prem and the Champ is widening. There needs to be an end to parachute payments and a more equitable sharing out of the TV money. Otherwise, the PL becomes  just an international exhibition league based in the UK but with no real connection to the rest of English football.

By the way Dawnie, Forest's role in the Prem is pretty much like the The Washington Generals, who are only there to make The Harlem Globetrotters look good. You've not got the class to maintain top flight football pal, so enjoy it while you can.

Oh we are mate.. Don't worry about that.

You enjoying your time? You have a club to support, that's all that matters remember.. 

[Leeds Ram]

I think the teams that have come up are deciding to bank the money, gamble they'll come back up the following season and then make a proper fist of it. It seems to be the way some teams approach promotion and see it purely in financial terms. Sheffield United have actually weakened their squad by selling off Sander Berge which made many United fans irate. 

I don't think there's a giant difference between the bottom 6 or 7 in the premier league and the championship these days. If you recruit smartly and have a good manager who can adapt there's a solid chance you'll survive as a new club. Recent history bears that out generally. Of course, it generally still means a relatively significant investment in the playing side to give you a good chance. 

[Red_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

I think the teams that have come up are deciding to bank the money, gamble they'll come back up the following season and then make a proper fist of it. It seems to be the way some teams approach promotion and see it purely in financial terms. Sheffield United have actually weakened their squad by selling off Sander Berge which made many United fans irate. 

I don't think there's a giant difference between the bottom 6 or 7 in the premier league and the championship these days. If you recruit smartly and have a good manager who can adapt there's a solid chance you'll survive as a new club. Recent history bears that out generally. Of course, it generally still means a relatively significant investment in the playing side to give you a good chance. 

This isn't remotely true. 

[Bris Vegas]

The Championship has been poor for a while. Leicester and Leeds should run away with it this season. I can’t see anybody else who stacks up against them. 

Leeds have had a slowish start but Farke was similar at Norwich before they got into their groove.

Leicester and Leeds now have better squads than Sheffield United and Luton. They both underachieved last season (they had better squads than Forest and Bournemouth), but they went down.

Next season the PL will be stronger again with Leicester and Leeds in it.

But the Championship has gotten worse because teams with parachute payments messed up. Clubs like Stoke, Cardiff, WBA, Swansea, Watford, Norwich and Huddersfield all missed the boat on promotion (due to poor managerial changes and recruitment), and now that they no longer get parachute payments they have slumped back into average Championship obscurity. 

 

[Leeds Ram]

2 hours ago, Red_Dawn said:

This isn't remotely true. 

Well now I'm convinced.... 

[Marriot Ram99]

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

The Championship has been poor for a while. Leicester and Leeds should run away with it this season. I can’t see anybody else who stacks up against them. 

Leeds have had a slowish start but Farke was similar at Norwich before they got into their groove.

Leicester and Leeds now have better squads than Sheffield United and Luton. They both underachieved last season (they had better squads than Forest and Bournemouth), but they went down.

Next season the PL will be stronger again with Leicester and Leeds in it.

But the Championship has gotten worse because teams with parachute payments messed up. Clubs like Stoke, Cardiff, WBA, Swansea, Watford, Norwich and Huddersfield all missed the boat on promotion (due to poor managerial changes and recruitment), and now that they no longer get parachute payments they have slumped back into average Championship obscurity. 

 

Ipswich look on fire I think they will get back to back promotions it will be them, and Leicester automatically with Leeds or maybe Hull or an outside bet like Bristol City through the playoffs.

[Rammy03]

It started to become poor when we became crap