Who wants to live forever?

[Carl Sagan]

On 14/09/2023 at 17:43, maxjam said:

I think thats all down to an individuals personality.  I'm already thinking I'll need several lifetimes to experience everything I want to on Earth at the moment!  

Assuming technology advances with life expectancy and we open up the universe to explore, what we can do and where we can go will become limitless.  Why wouldn't you want to live as long as possible to experience and learn everything you can?  

Nothing chronically narcissistic about wanting to experience life to the fullest. 

Perhaps currently as everything feels so grim and oppressive at the moment, but the caveat I have is we evolve into a kinda Star Trek culture - free energy, food, accommodation and travel etc and more emphasis is put on personal development, education and exploration.  We're generations away from that at present - but we're also generations away from (meaningful) space travel and any chance of eternal life.  Unless we blow ourselves up in the meantime perhaps the two will evolve at a similar time. 

Not necessarily, if we crack the genetics of eternal life then we become 'God'.  The alternative is you have your three scores years and 10 then become dust/go to your religions afterlife - delete as appropriate!

Personally, I believe we came from stardust and we'll return to stardust, there is nothing else to follow. This helps me do something I enjoy everyday.  If my current good health continues I'm hoping for at least 30+ active years.  There are literally hundreds of places I want to go and see and activities I want to experience.  If you gave me an even longer life and a ship I can travel the galaxy in, I could fill as much time as life gave me no problem.

Cheers - Some interesting stuff here. I agree there's a vast Universe out there to explore and I'd like to see so much more of that too. Otherwise isn't it an awful waste of space? Though that brings in other aging-related questions due to the time dilation from travelling in very fast spaceships. I disagree that the world feels grim now. Yes I know that's the narrative from the pessimists, but the objective position is there has never been a better time in all of Human history to be alive. People should enjoy it, and not moan about it!

On 14/09/2023 at 19:11, angieram said:

This is an interesting topic. 

Would we limit eternal life to those who'd earned it? 

Or do we keep the murderers, rapists, despots alive with the rest of us? 

There's a fascinating question. It'll go into the editorial notes for my authors who are writing about it for me. 

On 14/09/2023 at 23:56, ilkleyram said:

This might be pedantic but you can’t cure aging - every single one of us is aging all the time.
What you can impact are the effects of aging - what you do for yourself- not smoking or drinking or taking drugs, taking exercise, keeping mobile etc - and what the medical profession does by way of research and developing medical skills and the pharmaceutical industry does by way of research and drug development. 
Between them the medical and pharmaceutical professions have been responsible for significantly extending life expectancy over the last few generations and greater knowledge and wealth as well as access to better healthcare systems in the developed world especially have also played their part 

Yes it depends on what you mean by aging. If it's "becoming older" then you can't "cure" it, but if it means removing the impact of becoming older at a cellular level, then indeed you can do that. Drugs such as Rapamycin or treatments such as blood plasma transfusions make mice biologically far younger, even starting quite late in life. The equivalent of taking a 65-year-old Human and giving them a body in its 20s or 30s. 

***

Now, some have talked about over-population. We are in a situation of marked infertility in the devloped world. The rate of global population growth has massively declined and the world population will now peak at some point between 2050 and 2100. In theory Earth could cope with significantly more organic Humans (before we talk about uploaded Humans instead). And indeed we can start spreading our numbers through the solar system and then beyond. 

Also, if we're all living vastly longer, then we will all be personally invested in the future and so are much more likely to want to look after the planet, and to push for a more equitable world.

Seeing the poll, I'm pleased I split the deathist vote into two options. I understand some people might not want to live forever. But how dare people want to prevent others from grabbing that opportunity? Sure that is the ultimate restriction on personal liberty, to have to die because other people won't allow you to live longer. I'm surprised there are so many of you.

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I disagree that the world feels grim now. Yes I know that's the narrative from the pessimists, but the objective position is there has never been a better time in all of Human history to be alive. People should enjoy it, and not moan about it!

You should share that with the people of Ukraine having their houses bombed by drones, the people of Morocco who have no house or possessions left after the earthquake, the people of Libya whose relatives have been washed away in floods, the people whose homes have been destroyed by wildfires, the people who have to choose between feeding their kids and putting the heating on...

 

[cstand]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

You should share that with the people of Ukraine having their houses bombed by drones, the people of Morocco who have no house or possessions left after the earthquake, the people of Libya whose relatives have been washed away in floods, the people whose homes have been destroyed by wildfires, the people who have to choose between feeding their kids and putting the heating on...

 

Carl is absolutely correct there has never been a better time to be alive no amount of scaremongering will change this fact. 
People live and die every single day but  not on the scale compared to centuries ago plus we are more civilised today.

The majority of people today are now living longer than ever before this is a fact you cannot deny.

There always has been and always will be natural disasters since time began nothing will ever change that including net zero.
 

Edited September 16, 2023 by cstand

[Ram-Alf]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

You should share that with the people of Ukraine having their houses bombed by drones, the people of Morocco who have no house or possessions left after the earthquake, the people of Libya whose relatives have been washed away in floods, the people whose homes have been destroyed by wildfires, the people who have to choose between feeding their kids and putting the heating on...

 

And DCFC supporters 😉

[Stive Pesley]

36 minutes ago, cstand said:

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

You should share that with the people of Ukraine having their houses bombed by drones, the people of Morocco who have no house or possessions left after the earthquake, the people of Libya whose relatives have been washed away in floods, the people whose homes have been destroyed by wildfires, the people who have to choose between feeding their kids and putting the heating on...

 

Expand  

Carl is absolutely correct there has never been a better time to be alive

But what he actually means is that there has never been a better time to be alive if you are a member of the white, middle classes (and above)

If he'd said that I'd have agreed with him

Inequality has never been greater and climate change is only going to make that worse

 

[cstand]

25 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

But what he actually means is that there has never been a better time to be alive if you are a member of the white, middle classes (and above)

If he'd said that I'd have agreed with him

Inequality has never been greater and climate change is only going to make that worse

 

The fact remains which you cannot deny is more people are living on this planet than ever before in the history of mankind. 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by cstand

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, cstand said:

The fact remains which you cannot deny is more people are living on this planet than ever before in the history of mankind. 

Why would I deny that?

[Carl Sagan]

3 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

But what he actually means is that there has never been a better time to be alive if you are a member of the white, middle classes (and above)

If he'd said that I'd have agreed with him

Inequality has never been greater and climate change is only going to make that worse

This is sort of fatuous idiotic dross that the "rolls eye" emoji was once useful for. Sadly no longer with us.

Here's a sample infograph of how the world has got better for everyone

[Comrade 86]

35 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Here's a sample infograph of how the world has got better for everyone

Everyone? 🙄

In your own words, 'this is sort of fatuous idiotic dross that the "rolls eye" emoji was once useful for.'

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Comrade 86
To add roll eyes :)

[Ram-Alf]

9 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

This is sort of fatuous idiotic dross that the "rolls eye" emoji was once useful for. Sadly no longer with us.

Here's a sample infograph of how the world has got better for everyone

Where is this land of milk and honey?

Have you heard of the famine in Vietnam, Or being Uyghurs in China, Or maybe the 100s of 1000s that risk their lives crossing the Med and Channel, The despots that treat their citizens in Africa as chattel, Maybe go to South America and see what life is like in a good few of the Countries there.

Back home in Blighty there's suffering too, Food banks, Rising cost of living, A struggling health service, Education and schools on it's knees, All's good if you meet a certain criteria in the World...£ $ €s if you aint got it...who gives a sh*t.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by The Last Post

[cstand]

Can anyone see 2023 on this list?
https://www.historydefined.net/ten-of-the-most-terrible-years-to-be-alive/

 

From 1955 to 2023 life expectancy has risen from 45 to 73 years old because the majority of the world’s population are better off than any time in the history of mankind.

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

Edited September 17, 2023 by cstand

[Stive Pesley]

Yet wealth inequality within countries has never been greater.

 

[cstand]

46 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yet wealth inequality within countries has never been greater.

 

You have inadvertently admitted that wealth inequality has no bearing on the increase life expectancy of the worldwide population since 1955. 
 

The Worldometer lists 201 countries. Not one country on that list has an average life expectancy lower than the worldwide average in 1955. 
 

Edited September 17, 2023 by cstand

[TigerTedd]

Depends what your metrics and criteria are? Is democracy important, or poverty, or happiness and fulfilment? One doesn’t necessarily lead to the other.

if you live to 100 but every day has been miserable, somethings not quite right. But just cos there’s a famine here, or a war there, or a natural disaster over there, doesn’t mean that the general quality of life for the vast majority of people isn’t trending significantly upwards.

s*** happens to everyone at some point, but it’s still a great deal better than the shitty situations people were living in 50 or 100 years ago. 

[Stive Pesley]

22 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Depends what your metrics and criteria are? Is democracy important, or poverty, or happiness and fulfilment? One doesn’t necessarily lead to the other.

if you live to 100 but every day has been miserable, somethings not quite right

Exactly - I find it hard to follow the argument here. Increased life expectancy does not = "a better life". And I never said it did. Just the usual suspects trying to start fights with me because they're bored. I'm being called a "fatuous idiot" for pointing out someone is speaking from a point of immense privilege. 

 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Exactly - I find it hard to follow the argument here. Increased life expectancy does not = "a better life". And I never said it did. Just the usual suspects trying to start fights with me because they're bored. I'm being called a "fatuous idiot" for pointing out someone is speaking from a point of immense privilege. 

 

Increased life expectancy is a symptom of a better life. People in the higher socioeconomic groups tend to live longer too. 

[Ram-Alf]

I didn't know where to put this...but it's about life, I've seen some shyte in my 67 years and been involved in a fare bit too, But this blew me away, Read the story and watch the 13min video at the bottom...All self induced I know but...Why?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66826895

[Stive Pesley]

"The greatest time to be alive" 🙄

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/disgrace-more-23000-children-living-8754680

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

"The greatest time to be alive" 🙄

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/disgrace-more-23000-children-living-8754680

So why are kids of today so fat? 

[Elwood P Dowd]

I am going to live forever or die in the attempt 😂😂😂