The Ukraine War

[Alph]

Israel, AIPAC, Conservative Friends of Israel, Labour Friends of Israel and whatever other powerful lobbying groups that act on behalf of a racist, apartheid colonial state which openly defies international law, is protected under veto power by America (used half their veto’s in relation to Israel), tear up the rules created after WWII to protect us and speaks openly with genocidal intent about “Greater Israel” 

Right now that is a bigger threat to our way of life and values. It makes us question our own values and the integrity of our leaders. Right wing organisations with leaders who are part of shady groups financing Israeli settlements are being pushed to the front and centre. 
 

The biggest threat to our way of life comes from within and I’m absolutely sure the Russian bots are working overtime to make sure we are busy fighting each other. 
 

If Putin has his eyes on anything west of Ukraine, which is highly debatable, then it won’t be any time soon before he can do anything about it. He’s headed for a Pyrrhic  victory. He’s pushed countries towards NATO and shown the complete incompetence of Russian military leadership. 
It seems to me the more immediate threat to our way of life comes from within and our politicians who serve lobby groups and the wealthy. In terms of conflict I think more immediately the threat to the UK comes from what’s happening in the Middle East. The impact that’s having on our society and the chances of our biggest ally having to step in with direct force. 

 

[Archied]

8 hours ago, MaltRam said:

Which areas are far worse than Russia?

Which ones of those represent an existential threat to our way of life and values?

Russia does. They invaded a neighbour. They murder anyone who gets in their way. They sow discord and undermine us in any way they can. They treat human life as utterly dispensible. If they get away with it in Ukraine, what's next? If putting a stop to that means world war, who's fault is that? Keir Starmer? The US miltary-industrial complex? NATO? Or Putin? We don't stop him now, we'll have to stop him later when he's stronger.

Take a look around the world and you will easily see regimes far worse than Russia , if you don’t want to do that I can’t help you and your clearly not interested in seeing ,

I don’t buy the putin intends to March over the whole of Europe and is an existential threat to our way of life and values , we want and have wanted for a long time regime change in Russia and we have played our part in getting where we are , just go back to the promises made to Gorbachev and follow things from there and if you don’t think our leaders see life as cheap I don’t know what to tell you,

just to be clear , I don’t see putin in a good light , I don’t see what we are doing as too clever either though, the truth is we see things differently but you or I have no say in any of this and the deaths rumble on , meanwhile our joined up thinking leaders tell us to prepare for war whilst totally dismantling our capabilities of actually going to war with net zero madness , jeez we can’t even produce our own virgin grade steel anymore , you couldn’t make this poo up

 

[Archied]

8 hours ago, Alph said:

Israel, AIPAC, Conservative Friends of Israel, Labour Friends of Israel and whatever other powerful lobbying groups that act on behalf of a racist, apartheid colonial state which openly defies international law, is protected under veto power by America (used half their veto’s in relation to Israel), tear up the rules created after WWII to protect us and speaks openly with genocidal intent about “Greater Israel” 

Right now that is a bigger threat to our way of life and values. It makes us question our own values and the integrity of our leaders. Right wing organisations with leaders who are part of shady groups financing Israeli settlements are being pushed to the front and centre. 
 

The biggest threat to our way of life comes from within and I’m absolutely sure the Russian bots are working overtime to make sure we are busy fighting each other. 
 

If Putin has his eyes on anything west of Ukraine, which is highly debatable, then it won’t be any time soon before he can do anything about it. He’s headed for a Pyrrhic  victory. He’s pushed countries towards NATO and shown the complete incompetence of Russian military leadership. 
It seems to me the more immediate threat to our way of life comes from within and our politicians who serve lobby groups and the wealthy. In terms of conflict I think more immediately the threat to the UK comes from what’s happening in the Middle East. The impact that’s having on our society and the chances of our biggest ally having to step in with direct force. 

 

Plenty I agree with in there though in the interest of balance there is plenty on the left that I put on a par with the right🤷🏻‍♂️

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, Archied said:

Take a look around the world and you will easily see regimes far worse than Russia , if you don’t want to do that I can’t help you and your clearly not interested in seeing ,

I don’t buy the putin intends to March over the whole of Europe and is an existential threat to our way of life and values , we want and have wanted for a long time regime change in Russia and we have played our part in getting where we are , just go back to the promises made to Gorbachev and follow things from there and if you don’t think our leaders see life as cheap I don’t know what to tell you,

just to be clear , I don’t see putin in a good light , I don’t see what we are doing as too clever either though, the truth is we see things differently but you or I have no say in any of this and the deaths rumble on , meanwhile our joined up thinking leaders tell us to prepare for war whilst totally dismantling our capabilities of actually going to war with net zero madness , jeez we can’t even produce our own virgin grade steel anymore , you couldn’t make this poo up

 

Is there a problem with the forum or am I on some kind of watch as when I post it tells me I have to have post approved by moderator ?

[rynny]

51 minutes ago, Archied said:

Is there a problem with the forum or am I on some kind of watch as when I post it tells me I have to have post approved by moderator ?

There are words that trigger post approval, a pre-moderation, if you will. It also picks them up in posts that are quoted.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Plenty I agree with in there though in the interest of balance there is plenty on the left that I put on a par with the right🤷🏻‍♂️

That’s fair enough. I don’t see it myself but that’s probably down to my bias. So I’m not going to disagree too strongly with you mate

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, Alph said:

 It seems to me the more immediate threat to our way of life comes from within and our politicians who serve lobby groups and the wealthy.

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

Take a look around the world and you will easily see regimes far worse than Russia , if you don’t want to do that I can’t help you and your clearly not interested in seeing ,

I don’t buy the putin intends to March over the whole of Europe and is an existential threat to our way of life and values , we want and have wanted for a long time regime change in Russia and we have played our part in getting where we are , just go back to the promises made to Gorbachev and follow things from there and if you don’t think our leaders see life as cheap I don’t know what to tell you,

just to be clear , I don’t see putin in a good light , I don’t see what we are doing as too clever either though, the truth is we see things differently but you or I have no say in any of this and the deaths rumble on , meanwhile our joined up thinking leaders tell us to prepare for war whilst totally dismantling our capabilities of actually going to war with net zero madness , jeez we can’t even produce our own virgin grade steel anymore , you couldn’t make this poo up

 

Talking of promises made, how about the promises made to Ukraine by the Russian Federation (which are actually signed agreements, not heresay) to respect Ukraine's borders in exchange for Ukraine decommissioning the nuclear weapons left on it's territory by the USSR? 

And why should sovereign nations be stopped from entering economic or strategic alliances with whoever they want after their former masters have oppressed their people for decades or, in some cases, centuries?

[Stive Pesley]

https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/18/russia_putin_trump_white_house/

Clear then who Putin is a rootin' for

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/18/russia_putin_trump_white_house/

Clear then who Putin is a rootin' for

Those pesky Russian trolls

       😋

[MaltRam]

10 hours ago, Archied said:

Take a look around the world and you will easily see regimes far worse than Russia , if you don’t want to do that I can’t help you and your clearly not interested in seeing ,

I don’t buy the putin intends to March over the whole of Europe and is an existential threat to our way of life and values , we want and have wanted for a long time regime change in Russia and we have played our part in getting where we are , just go back to the promises made to Gorbachev and follow things from there and if you don’t think our leaders see life as cheap I don’t know what to tell you,

just to be clear , I don’t see putin in a good light , I don’t see what we are doing as too clever either though, the truth is we see things differently but you or I have no say in any of this and the deaths rumble on , meanwhile our joined up thinking leaders tell us to prepare for war whilst totally dismantling our capabilities of actually going to war with net zero madness , jeez we can’t even produce our own virgin grade steel anymore , you couldn’t make this poo up

 

I'm going to back away slowly. Enjoy the debate.

[Archied]

8 hours ago, Crewton said:

Talking of promises made, how about the promises made to Ukraine by the Russian Federation (which are actually signed agreements, not heresay) to respect Ukraine's borders in exchange for Ukraine decommissioning the nuclear weapons left on it's territory by the USSR? 

And why should sovereign nations be stopped from entering economic or strategic alliances with whoever they want after their former masters have oppressed their people for decades or, in some cases, centuries?

As I said , I’m not defending putin just pointing out there is fault on both sides and the west has played its part , now I’m sure your savvy enough take a look at how the west has gone back on promises made when real advances were made in relation s between the west and Russia under Gorbachev, recent regime changes in Ukraine have not totally passed the sniff test either ,,,

it’s a bloody mess that is far more complex than Russia is the cowboy in the black hat and we are the cowboy in the white Stetson,

we can only post what we see and feel and I feel there needs to be serious moves to find a solution to end the killing and poss disaster of an escalation and that means both sides owning my they’re poo but again what does it matter what folks like you and I think🤷‍♂️

[Archied]

29 minutes ago, MaltRam said:

I'm going to back away slowly. Enjoy the debate.

It’s not really a debate , just a few people saying what they feel about the situation and in my case from the perspective of knowing what I think matters not a jot , it’s quite scary when you consider the lack of quality and competence of politicians of all stripes here and in the USA that these are the people we are at the mercy of to not lead us into Armageddon, still ,what you gonna do 🤷🏻‍♂️