Attacking play limitations

[May Contain Nuts]

It seems almost impossible that Rooney could be criticised for anything at the moment but I suspect that even if we had myriad attacking options we'd be still seeing similar problems. Not as bad but still there.

We play some good football around the box but as has been pointed out rarely inside the box.

15 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

I don't expect a Bryson. Just occasionally two of Bird, Shinnie and Knight getting in the area so at the very least they can pull defenders out of position. 

Rooney clearly doesn't think that it's worth the risk of leaving ourselves exposed by even having even one of them bomb into the box. Even our good attacking play carries a defensive element, we need / want as many players as possible to be in position to and show a great desire to get back and  defend so we will very rarely over-commit going forward.

It's the sensible approach given our current predicament and as such this isn't a criticism of the job he's doing, but the approach isn't necessarily in place because of our predicament.

I think we just have to accept that even with better players we'd be a pretty cautious team a lot of the time because that's how the manager chooses to set us up. There's evidence for this in his team selections and placement of certain players 

We're in a position that even if we do disagree with some of his ideas, some of his team selections and subs then we have to trust that he knows best because he sees these players every day.

Facts are that with even his limited options and without a points deductions we'd be comfortably mid table. Anything that isn't 'right' is a minor quibble, not something to focus on at this moment (but not something to ignore in the long term).

Perhaps with a better squad although we'd score more, even a minute shift towards a more loosely defined structure we'd undoubtedly concede more,  so at the minute the balance is probably as good as we can expect.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Coconut's Beard

[May Contain Nuts]

Essentially Rooney's approach is pretty darned similar to Nigel Clough's approach. Hard work first, flair second, even if it's at the cost of the chosen players' full attacking potential

Unless it all clicks it appears somewhat limiting. If it clicks for a short while but anyone becomes complacent and their effort levels drop they'll be out - I can well imagine Tomasz Cwyka's time here under Clough would have played out similarly had he been a player in our current squad.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Coconut's Beard

[Anag Ram]

5 hours ago, Coconut's Beard said:

It seems almost impossible that Rooney could be criticised for anything at the moment but I suspect that even if we had myriad attacking options we'd be still seeing similar problems. Not as bad but still there.

We play some good football around the box but as has been pointed out rarely inside the box.

Rooney clearly doesn't think that it's worth the risk of leaving ourselves exposed by even having even one of them bomb into the box. Even our good attacking play carries a defensive element, we need / want as many players as possible to be in position to and show a great desire to get back and  defend so we will very rarely over-commit going forward.

It's the sensible approach given our current predicament and as such this isn't a criticism of the job he's doing, but the approach isn't necessarily in place because of our predicament.

I think we just have to accept that even with better players we'd be a pretty cautious team a lot of the time because that's how the manager chooses to set us up. There's evidence for this in his team selections and placement of certain players 

We're in a position that even if we do disagree with some of his ideas, some of his team selections and subs then we have to trust that he knows best because he sees these players every day.

Facts are that with even his limited options and without a points deductions we'd be comfortably mid table. Anything that isn't 'right' is a minor quibble, not something to focus on at this moment (but not something to ignore in the long term).

Perhaps with a better squad although we'd score more, even a minute shift towards a more loosely defined structure we'd undoubtedly concede more,  so at the minute the balance is probably as good as we can expect.

You may well be right, and who knows, that’s why we all waste time on here hypothesising! ?

I’m not so sure it’s a Rooney thing. I can’t imagine he tells players not to shoot. Also, I can’t remember a Derby line-up from the past whereby goals look so unlikely. Regardless of our style of play (let’s imagine we’re hung-ho in every game), who would you see as likely to score a goal? 

They all look terrified when given an opportunity. The passing is great. Amongst the best in the league.

I’d like to think Rooney and co will have them all smashing the ball at the net in training until it becomes second nature.

[SamUltraRam]

Some info for any statisticians out there :

All our home goals (5) have come in the 1st half - none scored in the 2nd half

All our away goals (2) have come in the 2nd half - none scored in the 1st half

Only 2 goals have been conceded in the 1st half all season home & away

Only 1 goal conceded from open play in the last 6 games

4 of the 8 goals conceded have come in the last 10 minutes of games

Derby haven't been awarded any penalties this season in the league - despite several clear and obvious incidents

Edited October 18, 2021 by SamUltraRam

[Chris_Martin]

On 16/10/2021 at 22:25, rammieib said:

We don’t make many runs behind, and thus our more creative players don’t seem to even look to pick out the defence splitting pass.

 

we don't have a striker that can do this.

[rammieib]

17 hours ago, dcfc4ever said:

Is this a joke…85th minute if you were there you could clearly see our players were shattered after a massive effort both defending and attacking.As for another game I never saw us scoring comment we were incredibly unlucky at Preston hitting bar,shots blocked,good saves and 2 penalty decisions going against us.Our players don’t need to bring more to table there effort is admirable in the current circumstances 

No, its not a joke.

I've not asked for more effort so I'm surprised you've written that. I think you have misinterpreted what I've said. I think the effort and commitment is phenomenal and all supporters can see that.

What I wrote is that we need to be bold and be committed to making the runs. That's actually an ability and a knowledge to know when to do it and to actually do it. I don't say that Tom standing on the edge of the box is a lack of effort. He's never been a type of player to making a lung busting run to get on the end of things. What I'm saying though is that if you're not in there, then things don't happen.

As a team, we are very rarely 'in-there' to make those things happen so the lack of goals isn't a surprise at all as for me, we don't put put ourselves often enough in with an opportunity. It's a lot of close knit play in the middle of the pitch, a lot of triangles and so on with Lawrence and Morrison dropping (too) deep to be involved with neither Bird nor Shinnie making the runs. Trying for 90 minutes to play this type of football, especially as it often starts with the GK is mentally challenging.

Against Preston, lets talk XG - I've not looked at the stats but my suspicion would be that none of the opportunities were more than a XG of 0.2. I'd be surprised if any of them were greater than 0.15. Davies header goes in 1 in 15, Jags rebound maybe 1 in 10. Two long range shots are maybe 1 in 20 and Ebs run is 1 in 15. The handball was a penalty but even then, winning that is good luck because thats them giving something away, not us winning it.

Conclusion is - I just want us to start showing a little more decisive play in making last man/third man runs and that should come from the midfielders. CKR playing will allow us to hold the ball up the pitch higher and that is probably a better option that Baldock trying to make the runs in-behind.

But please don't take lack of ability for lack of effort - the effort is phenomenal.

[ImARam2]

I was at Preston on Saturday and Derby played very well, especially in the first half.

Preston had one decent chance, which was a misplaced header in the 2nd half, and towards the end they were defending with everyone back and just looking for a breakaway.

I would substituted Morrison and have brought on Jozwiak, as apart from Ebosele, there was no one wide against Preston's left back.

As noted above, the hold-up play by CKR will be able to bring better runs from the midfield players, and I would like to see another player alongside CKR as he is very good in the short side passes to colleagues.

[Anag Ram]

On 18/10/2021 at 06:44, Anag Ram said:

You may well be right, and who knows, that’s why we all waste time on here hypothesising! ?

I’m not so sure it’s a Rooney thing. I can’t imagine he tells players not to shoot. Also, I can’t remember a Derby line-up from the past whereby goals look so unlikely. Regardless of our style of play (let’s imagine we’re hung-ho in every game), who would you see as likely to score a goal? 

They all look terrified when given an opportunity. The passing is great. Amongst the best in the league.

I’d like to think Rooney and co will have them all smashing the ball at the net in training until it becomes second nature.

So pleased to see a few shots from outside the box tonight.