Stifling players

[HorsforthRam]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

And no other club has fan expectations? Have a word. 
We ain’t special. 

I think in the Championship, there is extra pressure playing for a club like Derby. I think at championship level, we are special. 

[Angry Ram]

20 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

I think in the Championship, there is extra pressure playing for a club like Derby. I think at championship level, we are special. 

Why? We’re an average Championship club. 

[hintonsboots]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Yeah but tbf lingard only rouses himself once every 2 or 4 years when an England tournament squad is about to be announced...?

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

There is no Club philosophy. Each manager does his own thing. In other words there is no corilation between player A and player B. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

I think Dowell had some other loans where he was not picked regularly and contributed little.

[Millenniumram]

It all comes down to coaching for me. Dowell is now working under Daniel Farke, a quality coach who has proven himself capable of getting the best out of some pretty average players. Here he was working under Cocu, under whom pretty much every one of our attacking players struggled to perform. That’s not a coincidence, so it’s no wonder Dowell looked like a Sunday League player here, despite performing well in a similar quality Forest team in the past. 

It’s not just Dowell either. Since Lampard's departure (who was a good coach imo), pretty much all of our attacking players have regressed massively. Waghorn looked like one of the best strikers in the division at one point, now he looks like a donkey. Holmes was class under Lampard, then looked like an amateur this season under Cocu/Rooney. It just shows you the impact on the squad of a couple of seasons under poor quality coaches in Cocu and Rooney. We’ve seen it all before as well - when we finally sacked Clough and brought McClaren in, there was a huge upturn in quality from almost all of our players. And that’s all down to coaching - they were still the same players after all. We’re in a similar position now - we need to get rid of Rooney and bring in a proper coach as soon as we get the chance. It’s clear how vital that is in terms of getting the best out of players - both those already here, and those we hopefully bring in during the summer.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

It all comes down to coaching for me. Dowell is now working under Daniel Farke, a quality coach who has proven himself capable of getting the best out of some pretty average players. Here he was working under Cocu, under whom pretty much every one of our attacking players struggled to perform. That’s not a coincidence, so it’s no wonder Dowell looked like a Sunday League player here, despite performing well in a similar quality Forest team in the past. 

It’s not just Dowell either. Since Lampard's departure (who was a good coach imo), pretty much all of our attacking players have regressed massively. Waghorn looked like one of the best strikers in the division at one point, now he looks like a donkey. Holmes was class under Lampard, then looked like an amateur this season under Cocu/Rooney. It just shows you the impact on the squad of a couple of seasons under poor quality coaches in Cocu and Rooney. We’ve seen it all before as well - when we finally sacked Clough and brought McClaren in, there was a huge upturn in quality from almost all of our players. And that’s all down to coaching - they were still the same players after all. We’re in a similar position now - we need to get rid of Rooney and bring in a proper coach as soon as we get the chance. It’s clear how vital that is in terms of getting the best out of players - both those already here, and those we hopefully bring in during the summer.

He was also pants at Sheff Utd, but Wilder was/is regarded as a fantastic coach, evidenced by what he got out of all other players.

[RoyMac5]

35 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He was also pants at Sheff Utd, but Wilder was/is regarded as a fantastic coach, evidenced by what he got out of all other players.

? Didn't know that.

[Millenniumram]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He was also pants at Sheff Utd, but Wilder was/is regarded as a fantastic coach, evidenced by what he got out of all other players.

Very true, but the point wasn’t really specific to Dowell, it was more a general thing about the importance of good coaching. I still think that Dowell’s poor work rate was a big contributor to his lack of form here as well.

[cannable]

12 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

It all comes down to coaching for me. Dowell is now working under Daniel Farke, a quality coach who has proven himself capable of getting the best out of some pretty average players. Here he was working under Cocu, under whom pretty much every one of our attacking players struggled to perform. That’s not a coincidence, so it’s no wonder Dowell looked like a Sunday League player here, despite performing well in a similar quality Forest team in the past. 

It’s not just Dowell either. Since Lampard's departure (who was a good coach imo), pretty much all of our attacking players have regressed massively. Waghorn looked like one of the best strikers in the division at one point, now he looks like a donkey. Holmes was class under Lampard, then looked like an amateur this season under Cocu/Rooney. It just shows you the impact on the squad of a couple of seasons under poor quality coaches in Cocu and Rooney. We’ve seen it all before as well - when we finally sacked Clough and brought McClaren in, there was a huge upturn in quality from almost all of our players. And that’s all down to coaching - they were still the same players after all. We’re in a similar position now - we need to get rid of Rooney and bring in a proper coach as soon as we get the chance. It’s clear how vital that is in terms of getting the best out of players - both those already here, and those we hopefully bring in during the summer.

We only scored seven league goals less in 19/20 than we did in 18/19.

Waghorn only started 18 games (8 goals) up front for Lampard (13 goals in total) and 13 (9 goals) under Cocu (12 goals in total). Just the three starts up front for Rooney two, going off injured in one of those. 

Holmes’ best spell was under Cocu. He was a POTS candidate until lockdown last season.

[Millenniumram]

11 hours ago, cannable said:

We only scored seven league goals less in 19/20 than we did in 18/19.

Waghorn only started 18 games (8 goals) up front for Lampard (13 goals in total) and 13 (9 goals) under Cocu (12 goals in total). Just the three starts up front for Rooney two, going off injured in one of those. 

Holmes’ best spell was under Cocu. He was a POTS candidate until lockdown last season.

Now that does surprise me, fair play, it certainly didn’t feel that way! Though I believe a lot of those goals came in a good spell we had either side of lockdown, don’t think the figures were consistent throughout the season.

That’s the spell I was on about with Waghorn - at the end of the Lampard season (before his injury that made him miss the playoffs) he seemed to come of age and seemed to be bringing everything together up front. Not just his goals, but his all round play too. He looked as good a number 9 as you’d see at this level. No matter what the stats may show, he certainly didn’t continue that progression under Cocu and Rooney.

Disagree on Holmes. He was doing well before lockdown yes, but he was only POTS candidate because everyone else had been so dreadful (Clarke excepted). His best spell was undoubtedly while Mount was out and he filled in under Lampard. Some of his passing and interplay was Hughes esque during that run.