Stifling players

[Stockyram92]

Not sure if its been mentioned before but..

 

I saw a post on twitter someone questioning whether there's something about the club that stifles players,  he mentioned keiran dowell, and im sure there's been other players in recent times that have had success before and after being at Derby but unable to produce their best here, just wondered about other possible examples and what the reason could be? 

[angieram]

Just now, Stockyram92 said:

Not sure if its been mentioned before but..

 

I saw a post on twitter someone questioning whether there's something about the club that stifles players,  he mentioned keiran dowell, and im sure there's been other players in recent times that have had success before and after being at Derby but unable to produce their best here, just wondered about other possible examples and what the reason could be? 

Fan expectation.

Form an orderly queue here to deny it! 

⬇️

[Warwick Ram]

I do find it interesting that Kieran Dowell really struggled here yet he is now playing for the best team in the championship and leaders.

Our fans slated him and basically said he was useless.

However, I do accept he is playing with better players and this will enable him to play better.

[Philmycock]

It happens everywhere at every club to every player, it's a football thing, players thrive or fail, it's not a wholly DCFC phenomenon?

[LeedsCityRam]

3 minutes ago, Stockyram92 said:

Not sure if its been mentioned before but..

 

I saw a post on twitter someone questioning whether there's something about the club that stifles players,  he mentioned keiran dowell, and im sure there's been other players in recent times that have had success before and after being at Derby but unable to produce their best here, just wondered about other possible examples and what the reason could be? 

Dowell is a good player but he's only going to thrive when he has plenty of the ball & minimal defensive duties. He has that at Norwich with Skipp & McLean sitting in and allowing the 3 behind Pukki to express themselves.

When he played for us first half of last season, we were struggling to establish any control in midfield & someone like Dowell was a bit of a luxury.. Bielik didnt play DM until about November, Bird hadn't emerged, Shinnie was struggling & even Evans was having to play in there. 

As to the general point about players, @angieram is definitely right about fan expectation not helping. The bigger problem I believe though is the constant change in managers (and therefore style) & recruitment often ill-suited to the existing side. Players like Bennett, Evans & Pearce can thrive somewhere like Millwall because Rowett has a set team structure & players fill specific roles. At Derby, I sense we sign players on talent alone & then work out how the team adapts to them. Its why we have a lot of talent (yes, even now) but often poor team cohesion & understanding.

[DRBee]

15 minutes ago, Warwick Ram said:

I do find it interesting that Kieran Dowell really struggled here yet he is now playing for the best team in the championship and leaders.

Our fans slated him and basically said he was useless.

However, I do accept he is playing with better players and this will enable him to play better.

Its not rocket science - Dowell is now playing with better players and under a manager who sets his team up  to attack  - just look at the positioning of Norwich full backs yesterday. 

[Olton Ram]

Some clubs suit players better than others. It happens both ways too; you could argue that Chris Martin's career was on the slide a bit before he joined us; within a year he was considered one of the league's best strikers. Similarly, how many players have left Derby in the recent past and gone on to play a lot better than when they were here? Hughes and Hendrick have had steady Premier League careers, Lee Camp and Lee Grant have played a lot of games for a number of clubs, but no-one really sticks in the mind that went on to be big stars. Liam Delap might be an exception; time will tell.

As others have said, it happens throughout football. I don't think it's unique to Derby.

[cannable]

Dowell’s scored three league goals this season, his goal yesterday was a free-kick. Let’s not start gushing over how good he’s been for Norwich compared to us.

[BramcoteRam84]

Because we only care about Derby we tend to be self absorbed about our club and believe it’s the centre of the universe (all fans do) when really it isn’t. The takeover debacle “oh we’re a laughing stock”, reality is majority of football fans probably didn’t even know we are being taken over and those that do probably don’t give a poo. Like we’re the only club that gets bad injuries to key players, it’s just not true.

Same here with players not playing well for Derby and yet making it elsewhere. It is isn’t solely Derby that experiences this, it’s common everywhere. Case in point for this working the other way - Tom Ince. Since leaving Blackpool He’s struggled everywhere he’s been (you ask Red Dogs what they think of him) except Derby where he flourished. Chris Martin, did well at Norwich, excellent career here, struggled elsewhere. 

[Chris_Martin]

3 hours ago, Stockyram92 said:

Not sure if its been mentioned before but..

 

I saw a post on twitter someone questioning whether there's something about the club that stifles players,  he mentioned keiran dowell, and im sure there's been other players in recent times that have had success before and after being at Derby but unable to produce their best here, just wondered about other possible examples and what the reason could be? 

it has happened to some, but it has also been the other way round where players have been better here than elsewhere. Tom Ince being a perfect example.

It all just depends on the management/coaching at the club at that time. 

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, DRBee said:

Its not rocket science - Dowell is now playing with better players and under a manager who sets his team up  to attack  - just look at the positioning of Norwich full backs yesterday. 

think that says it all really.

[angieram]

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Because we only care about Derby we tend to be self absorbed about our club and believe it’s the centre of the universe (all fans do) when really it isn’t. The takeover debacle “oh we’re a laughing stock”, reality is majority of football fans probably didn’t even know we are being taken over and those that do probably don’t give a poo. Like we’re the only club that gets bad injuries to key players, it’s just not true.

Same here with players not playing well for Derby and yet making it elsewhere. It is isn’t solely Derby that experiences this, it’s common everywhere. Case in point for this working the other way - Tom Ince. Since leaving Blackpool He’s struggled everywhere he’s been (you ask Red Dogs what they think of him) except Derby where he flourished. Chris Martin, did well at Norwich, excellent career here, struggled elsewhere. 

Good post. 

There's also an element of not appreciating what you've got. Russell and Ward in particular some fans were always looking to upgrade, but we have really missed both in recent times.

Hendrick never quite good enough for us, but making a good living in the Prem.

And of course fit and confidence are both really important.

[Coneheadjohn]

I was thinking something similar watching Jesse Lingard earlier.

I think it depends if your glass is half full.

[BramcoteRam84]

31 minutes ago, angieram said:

Good post. 

There's also an element of not appreciating what you've got. Russell and Ward in particular some fans were always looking to upgrade, but we have really missed both in recent times.

Hendrick never quite good enough for us, but making a good living in the Prem.

And of course fit and confidence are both really important.

You’ve mentioned three of my favourite rams players in recent years there. Never understood the stick Hendrick got, some actually thought he was a bad player. He was always going to play in the premier league. Probably a consistency thing like with Lawrence, always had the talent and Euro 2016 was a real turning point for him. Had we been able to hold onto him he’d have swept the board with the player of the year awards that season 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Coneheadjohn said:

I was thinking something similar watching Jesse Lingard earlier.

I think it depends if your glass is half full.

Yeah but tbf lingard only rouses himself once every 2 or 4 years when an England tournament squad is about to be announced...?

[Angry Ram]

4 hours ago, angieram said:

Fan expectation.

Form an orderly queue here to deny it! 

⬇️

And no other club has fan expectations? Have a word. 
We ain’t special. 

[Coneheadjohn]

20 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Yeah but tbf lingard only rouses himself once every 2 or 4 years when an England tournament squad is about to be announced...?

Or his contract is running out?

[cannable]

2 hours ago, Coneheadjohn said:

I was thinking something similar watching Jesse Lingard earlier.

I think it depends if your glass is half full.

Lingard’s the one I just don’t get 

Tom Ince will always be better in my mind 

[Dimmu]

Well, we can take some credit, because not all players bounce back as a good players. We absolutely destroyed Buterfield who never recovered to the same level he was before joining us.

[nfb]

Not sure if its been mentioned here but, we do have a habit of playing players in positions that dont totally suit them, I could name a fair few in the last few years, Dowell  is as has been said best suited to the job he has at Norwich. Other players, whether they have done well elsewhere or not and we can all prove our point with players that work for that point... so what's the point. ?