The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

40 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Perhaps, pythonesque, some of the dead got better?

Be more interesting how many of the infected got better but that’s never been something anybody has been interested in tracking properly 

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

That’s fair , but there’s plenty who are more qualified than me and as and more qualified than you in that area who totally disagree with your interpretation,, and as you happily admit there are many factors involved that make it hard to establish real death figures and percentage/ death rate per case ,

I honestly don’t think there’s been enough concerted effort to get close to real numbers and that includes now when the spin is to say it’s over just as much as when project fear was in full swing, there’s a real sense of feeling manipulated to suit whatever the policy is at the time ,

I do a bit more than point a roof or build a wall ,, I specialise in Leadwork, which when you see it done properly is artwork, done some real stand out stuff over the years 

 

 

Interpretation of statistics by a non-statistician is open to cherry-picking and confirmation bias. Statistical analysis has been part of my life for more than 50 years, so I very much doubt that the people you are referring to when you say "...and more qualified than you in that area who totally disagree with your interpretation" are statisticians.

I have categorically proved to you that there have been in the order of 160,000 'excess deaths' since March 2020 - I didn't say WHY the excess deaths occurred - merely pointed out the correlation.

I have also categorically proved that your assertation that the 'five previous years had far fewer excess deaths than normal' was incorrect.

I spent six hours on that analysis today, taking things further than the ONS do by taking into account the changes in the population of England and Wales, and doing so for the last 16 years.

Something happened between March 2020 and today which has effectively caused the death of 160,000 more people in that period than in any other corresponding period since 2005, and you still cannot bring yourself to agree with me over anything. I sometimes wonder whether we exist on the same planet.

[GboroRam]

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Interpretation of statistics by a non-statistician is open to cherry-picking and confirmation bias. Statistical analysis has been part of my life for more than 50 years, so I very much doubt that the people you are referring to when you say "...and more qualified than you in that area who totally disagree with your interpretation" are statisticians.

I have categorically proved to you that there have been in the order of 160,000 'excess deaths' since March 2020 - I didn't say WHY the excess deaths occurred - merely pointed out the correlation.

I have also categorically proved that your assertation that the 'five previous years had far fewer excess deaths than normal' was incorrect.

I spent six hours on that analysis today, taking things further than the ONS do by taking into account the changes in the population of England and Wales, and doing so for the last 16 years.

Something happened between March 2020 and today which has effectively caused the death of 160,000 more people in that period than in any other corresponding period since 2005, and you still cannot bring yourself to agree with me over anything. I sometimes wonder whether we exist on the same planet.

Give it up Eddie, they don't care about the facts.

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

"...and more qualified than you in that area who totally disagree with your interpretation"

Guy on the interweb

[Archied]

9 hours ago, Eddie said:

Interpretation of statistics by a non-statistician is open to cherry-picking and confirmation bias. Statistical analysis has been part of my life for more than 50 years, so I very much doubt that the people you are referring to when you say "...and more qualified than you in that area who totally disagree with your interpretation" are statisticians.

I have categorically proved to you that there have been in the order of 160,000 'excess deaths' since March 2020 - I didn't say WHY the excess deaths occurred - merely pointed out the correlation.

I have also categorically proved that your assertation that the 'five previous years had far fewer excess deaths than normal' was incorrect.

I spent six hours on that analysis today, taking things further than the ONS do by taking into account the changes in the population of England and Wales, and doing so for the last 16 years.

Something happened between March 2020 and today which has effectively caused the death of 160,000 more people in that period than in any other corresponding period since 2005, and you still cannot bring yourself to agree with me over anything. I sometimes wonder whether we exist on the same planet.

I didn’t say the 5 previous years I said 2 and I’m sure you agree that year on year the swings at times can be very large , I have agreed with you that there are many factors to consider or at least I thought that’s what you were saying , are you in fact saying that 160000 excess deaths over this 2 year period tells us there been 160000 covid deaths? Is it possible that when we have five years figures from the start of covid figures may even out some?

of course there have been covid deaths but I’m sure the numbers could have recorded in a far more accurate way ,any death within 28 days of a positive test just does not cut it the same way figures of people in hospital with covid as opposed to suffering from covid is totally skewed 

the bottom line is that you and I totally disagree on the reaction to covid of the government and the media and I don’t think we will ever agree on that 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Archied

[Archied]

7 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Guy on the interweb

Are you not just a guy on the interweb too as is Eddie ? There’s been no such thing as highly qualified and esteemed people being rubbished and even receiving death threat s for holding a different view to the reaction and policies around covid 

[Archied]

9 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Give it up Eddie, they don't care about the facts.

Like the ones where mask mandates didn’t cut cut cases in Scotland or wales a jot compared to England who dropped them or the fact that places like Sweden fared practically no worse without draconian measures imposed on the population, facts seem rather like stats , able to be cherry picked and manipulated to suit 

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, Archied said:

Like the ones where mask mandates didn’t cut cut cases in Scotland or wales a jot compared to England who dropped them or the fact that places like Sweden fared practically no worse without draconian measures imposed on the population, facts seem rather like stats , able to be cherry picked and manipulated to suit 

Completely irrelevant to the solitary point I was making (and categorically proving).

It strikes me as quaintly amusing that the only answer you have to irrefutable facts is to resort to strawmen. Attempting to have a logical discussion with you is akin to attempting to push a piece of string or herding a group of cats. You just head off at a tangent.

 

 

 

 

 

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Completely irrelevant to the solitary point I was making (and categorically proving).

It strikes me as quaintly amusing that the only answer you have to irrefutable facts is to resort to strawmen. Attempting to have a logical discussion with you is akin to attempting to push a piece of string or herding a group of cats. You just head off at a tangent.

 

 

 

 

 

We live in the era of alternative facts. If you don't like what the facts tell you, make your own.

[ariotofmyown]

Anyone recommend a rapid antigen test for flying abroad? Kids are under 12 so need to take one as unvaccinated.

[Gone]

Just now, ariotofmyown said:

Anyone recommend a rapid antigen test for flying abroad? Kids are under 12 so need to take one as unvaccinated.

C19 Testing are good https://www.c19testing.co.uk pretty much instant test certificate once you’ve upload the results. 

[ariotofmyown]

5 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

C19 Testing are good https://www.c19testing.co.uk pretty much instant test certificate once you’ve upload the results. 

Cheers!

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

Completely irrelevant to the solitary point I was making (and categorically proving).

It strikes me as quaintly amusing that the only answer you have to irrefutable facts is to resort to strawmen. Attempting to have a logical discussion with you is akin to attempting to push a piece of string or herding a group of cats. You just head off at a tangent.

 

 

 

 

 

Come on ,,, you missed whataboutery ?
also you missed the question, are you saying your 160000 excess death figures confirm 160000 covid deaths because the debate first started around the lax recording of causes of death?

Edited April 1, 2022 by Archied

[Archied]

4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

We live in the era of alternative facts. If you don't like what the facts tell you, make your own.

We live in an era of people who do exactly what they accuse others of and don’t even consider it

[Gone]

1st April 2022. The day the bill came for all the free poo. Those who clambered for pointless and ineffective lockdowns and the associated costs (furlough etc), thank you! We are now paying for them. 

[PistoldPete]

14 hours ago, Archied said:

I didn’t say the 5 previous years I said 2 and I’m sure you agree that year on year the swings at times can be very large , I have agreed with you that there are many factors to consider or at least I thought that’s what you were saying , are you in fact saying that 160000 excess deaths over this 2 year period tells us there been 160000 covid deaths? Is it possible that when we have five years figures from the start of covid figures may even out some?

of course there have been covid deaths but I’m sure the numbers could have recorded in a far more accurate way ,any death within 28 days of a positive test just does not cut it the same way figures of people in hospital with covid as opposed to suffering from covid is totally skewed 

the bottom line is that you and I totally disagree on the reaction to covid of the government and the media and I don’t think we will ever agree on that 

The problem you will find is that what Eddie says is true. Pretty much all of it. More people die in winter than in summer, due in part to winter infections. So actually measuring excess deaths over a 2 year period may not capture all COVID deaths because some elderly people who die of COVID infections in winter may have died of other causes a few months later. So you may get excess deaths in winter but less deaths than you expect in summer.   

But overall counting  excess deaths  is a very good way to measure the impact of the pandemic, as Whitty and others have said.    

[1of4]

26 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

1st April 2022. The day the bill came for all the free poo. Those who clambered for pointless and ineffective lockdowns and the associated costs (furlough etc), thank you! We are now paying for them. 

Thought the increase to the gas and leccy was due to the increase in worldwide demand. Now your telling me it's because of the government actually showed a semblance of care about the well-being of the nation. That'll make me fell a lot better when I come to paying my bill.

[uttoxram75]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

1st April 2022. The day the bill came for all the free poo. Those who clambered for pointless and ineffective lockdowns and the associated costs (furlough etc), thank you! We are now paying for them. 

Paying who? We don't actually owe anyone anything.

[Gone]

7 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Paying who? We don't actually owe anyone anything.

Really? We don’t owe for all the free money that was splashed around for people to sit at home for months, Ok …….you reap what you sow 

[Archied]

9 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Thought the increase to the gas and leccy was due to the increase in worldwide demand. Now your telling me it's because of the government actually showed a semblance of care about the well-being of the nation. That'll make me fell a lot better when I come to paying my bill.

The well being of the nation is far more than just covid and a great deal of harm has been done across the board including needless deaths , illness and misery already with plenty stored up yet to come ,,, as Eddie says people struggle to see a doctor even now with covid in the vast vast majority little more than a cold or flu like virus,

but hey you stick with the covid is the be all and end all to the exclusion of everything else , after all covid deaths are the only ones that count ,im sure those losing loved ones to cancer and other non treated causes will be comforted by the fact it wasn’t covid that killed them and they lost they’re lives to save others from covid