I think we have to look at the rest of the season differently

[Will Hughes Hair]

57 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

To be honest that performance today has really hit my confidence for the remainder of the season. We were looking unstoppable in the first few games back after the break, but today we just seemed to take multiple steps back. We just didn’t look up for it. To reach the playoffs we need to be able to handle big games properly, and we didn’t show that we can today. A bit of a fluke of a draw doesn’t change the overall performance. We were slow, lethargic, disorganised and totally devoid of ideas. Watching Evans trying to play 80 yard passes over Martins head was pretty damn painful. 

In fairness, we do still look a damn sight better than we did before Christmas - in terms of controlling games especially. But it does seem like our paper thing squad is starting to get to us - we don’t have enough strength in depth to rotate as we need to in order to be successful over this busy period. We started well, but by the end of the Preston game we looked shattered - and today we just had no energy at all. I personally think this lack of depth, given the suspensions we’ve picked up to key players, will prove to be our undoing. The Cardiff win today has made our job an extremely tough one - still possible, but far far more unlikely than this time yesterday.

We have have struggled with excretahousing teams so many times in the past.  2013/14 Burnley and Leicester?  Lost key games against both.  Today we drew.

The pace of this run in will hurt many teams and there are so many variables ahead.  What would happen to Forest if they lost Grabban or Lolley (or both)?  Nerves are going to bite too.

Yes, Waghorn, Wisdom and Lawrence are all misses but Tom is only out for one more.  Waggy will be back fresh for Leeds.  And the rest of our run in is against footballing teams.

There is much to play for.  Much to enjoy.  It is not the time for feint hearts.

[Remy the hare]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

To be honest that performance today has really hit my confidence for the remainder of the season. We were looking unstoppable in the first few games back after the break, but today we just seemed to take multiple steps back. We just didn’t look up for it. To reach the playoffs we need to be able to handle big games properly, and we didn’t show that we can today. A bit of a fluke of a draw doesn’t change the overall performance. We were slow, lethargic, disorganised and totally devoid of ideas. Watching Evans trying to play 80 yard passes over Martins head was pretty damn painful. 

In fairness, we do still look a damn sight better than we did before Christmas - in terms of controlling games especially. But it does seem like our paper thing squad is starting to get to us - we don’t have enough strength in depth to rotate as we need to in order to be successful over this busy period. We started well, but by the end of the Preston game we looked shattered - and today we just had no energy at all. I personally think this lack of depth, given the suspensions we’ve picked up to key players, will prove to be our undoing. The Cardiff win today has made our job an extremely tough one - still possible, but far far more unlikely than this time yesterday.

I agree with all of your post but unstoppable since restart? Errr no? That’s wearing those DCFC rose tinted glasses ? you bought from the megastore I think.
We hung on for 3 wins. We hung on at Millwall, Reading in large parts were the better side, Preston yes first half an hour very good, but hung on again second half and then today. 
5 of the last 6 seasons we’ve been in this position with a few games to go, so gleefully it adds interest.
Besides even if we did manage to scrape in to the pos (which I doubt), the semis v Brentford or WBA would big games and like you say today was a prime example of a big game that we couldn’t get up for. Lets. build for next season and not hype up our chances and get deflated.  

[Bob The Badger]

52 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Ay? Typing gone to pot after too much celebration juice.

Not really. 

It was a reference to bringing back players who no longer play for us.

Kind of a joke.

And we lost.

What is there to celebrate about?

[Millenniumram]

29 minutes ago, Remy the hare said:

I agree with all of your post but unstoppable since restart? Errr no? That’s wearing those DCFC rose tinted glasses ? you bought from the megastore I think.
We hung on for 3 wins. We hung on at Millwall, Reading in large parts were the better side, Preston yes first half an hour very good, but hung on again second half and then today. 
5 of the last 6 seasons we’ve been in this position with a few games to go, so gleefully it adds interest.
Besides even if we did manage to scrape in to the pos (which I doubt), the semis v Brentford or WBA would big games and like you say today was a prime example of a big game that we couldn’t get up for. Lets. build for next season and not hype up our chances and get deflated.  

It might look like we “hung on” on paper, but I’m not sure that’s an entirely fair reflection on the games. First of all, the Millwall and Reading games would have been far more comfortable if it weren’t for two horrendous goals we conceded that were direct results of Goalkeeping/ defensive errors. We were totally in control at 3-1 vs Millwall, and Reading weren’t really threatening at 2-0 despite getting more possession.

Secondly, and probably most importantly, I’m pretty sure the dropping off and defending the leads was entirely by design. I’ve said it before, and it’s one of my main gripes with him, Cocu is a defence first manager. He likes to try to go 1/2 up, then stick on the defensive reinforcements and shut up shop. Can obviously be a very successful tactic, and has been at the highest level by the likes of Mourinho, but I’m not a huge fan of it - especially with the quality of our “defence”. But regardless of personal opinions about it, the “hanging on” to the leads is 100% tactical and it worked very well in those 3 games - we defended superbly and the opposition had very few clear cut chances despite all the pressure exerted. We should credit our defence for those performances imo, not criticise them as being lucky. 

I agree with your last paragraph mind. The end to this season would be pretty boring if there was no chance of top 6, so we should be glad we have some hope however slim it is - and we should keep pushing until it becomes mathematically impossible. But you’re right, this season has never really been about getting top 6 - we knew that as soon as we made a total arse of the summer transfer window, and matters were then further compounded by off field incidents. Frankly, all we could really expect this season with our poorest squad of the decade was to avoid relegation - and we look to have done that. If we can keep the push for the top 6 up then we will have had an excellent season given the circumstances, even if we don’t quite make it, and we should be pleased.

[Millenniumram]

47 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

We have have struggled with excretahousing teams so many times in the past.  2013/14 Burnley and Leicester?  Lost key games against both.  Today we drew.

The pace of this run in will hurt many teams and there are so many variables ahead.  What would happen to Forest if they lost Grabban or Lolley (or both)?  Nerves are going to bite too.

Yes, Waghorn, Wisdom and Lawrence are all misses but Tom is only out for one more.  Waggy will be back fresh for Leeds.  And the rest of our run in is against footballing teams.

There is much to play for.  Much to enjoy.  It is not the time for feint hearts.

Don’t disagree with the first point at all. Rivalry games are always very difficult, and I’d have definitely taken a point today before KO so I’m not hugely disappointed with the result. It’s the performance that’s annoyed me, and the Cardiff result has hit hard too. That’s made a huge difference to our chances. 

In response to your other point - yes injuries are going to happen everywhere with the tight schedule, and yes losing your best players will weaken every team - but other teams are better prepared than us. We have literally no squad depth at all. We’re a couple of injuries away from playing an untried 18 year old, whereas most other teams have senior pros to call up when players get injured. It’s a deliberate strategy by Mel to put faith in the academy, but I can’t help but feel it’s maybe a little extreme to have almost no cover in the forward areas.

But you’re right of course, we are still in the top 6 race, and we do still have a realistic chance of making it. I’m just not convinced, with our squad as a whole, that we will be able to keep the pace up. It’s going to be extra hard after today’s results. But we’ve still got a chance - these 5 games are massive.

[Will Hughes Hair]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

It’s a deliberate strategy by Mel to put faith in the academy, but I can’t help but feel it’s maybe a little extreme to have almost no cover in the forward areas.

 

I'm going to try and cheer you up.

I've just watched MOTD.  There was a focus on Bukayo Saka who was instrumental in Arsenal's win over Champions League chasing Wolves. He's 18 years old.

I've seen the lad play.  At Pride Park. And he was massively upstaged by Archie Brown, Morgan Whittaker, Louie Sibley, Max Bird and all.  Derby 5 Arsenal 2. Derby Under 18 Premier League National Champions.

Our youth may just be a little bit better than the rest of the league expect.

This is still on.

 

[Dimmu]

10 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't think there is actually anything wrong with his ribs,he appeared to be joking..no doubt just took a elbow to his chest

That's how I've done my ribs! Twice!!!

My fragile ribs ruined my career as a a target man.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

7 hours ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

We have have struggled with excretahousing teams so many times in the past.  2013/14 Burnley and Leicester?  Lost key games against both.  Today we drew.

The pace of this run in will hurt many teams and there are so many variables ahead.  What would happen to Forest if they lost Grabban or Lolley (or both)?  Nerves are going to bite too.

Yes, Waghorn, Wisdom and Lawrence are all misses but Tom is only out for one more.  Waggy will be back fresh for Leeds.  And the rest of our run in is against footballing teams.

There is much to play for.  Much to enjoy.  It is not the time for feint hearts.

I only hope that we don't run out of players like we did under Burley when Rasiak and Idiakez were both crocked for the play-offs.

[Sheikh n Bake]

10 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

So yeh, a wake up call is called for because I don't care where Forest are now, we have been the best team in the Championship since  the restart.

So a wake up call is required, despite being the best team in the Championship as you say, because we drew 1 game?

It's a bit dramatic, don't you think?

[angieram]

8 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Don’t disagree with the first point at all. Rivalry games are always very difficult, and I’d have definitely taken a point today before KO so I’m not hugely disappointed with the result. It’s the performance that’s annoyed me, and the Cardiff result has hit hard too. That’s made a huge difference to our chances. 

In response to your other point - yes injuries are going to happen everywhere with the tight schedule, and yes losing your best players will weaken every team - but other teams are better prepared than us. We have literally no squad depth at all. We’re a couple of injuries away from playing an untried 18 year old, whereas most other teams have senior pros to call up when players get injured. It’s a deliberate strategy by Mel to put faith in the academy, but I can’t help but feel it’s maybe a little extreme to have almost no cover in the forward areas.

But you’re right of course, we are still in the top 6 race, and we do still have a realistic chance of making it. I’m just not convinced, with our squad as a whole, that we will be able to keep the pace up. It’s going to be extra hard after today’s results. But we’ve still got a chance - these 5 games are massive.

We have a long term injury and two stupid suspensions in the forward areas which have made us look like we have "almost no cover". I don't think that was a deliberate ploy by anyone, especially Mel Morris.

[BramcoteRam84]

Let’s not panic yet we still have a big shot at this. Let’s not judge what we’re going to do for the rest of the season on this one game. We sneaked what could be a vital point, we move on. We have been excellent since the resumption - Millwall and Preston were extremely convincing and well deserved victories against 2 playoff rivals, we rode our luck against reading and yesterday but we have it in us. 
 

The run in is tough yes, but that has always been the case. The Cardiff game is and has always been the critical one whatever happens in the next two games. If we win that it’s well and truly game on. Lose and it’s probably season over.
 

As for the team he needs to reshuffle the deck to account for missing waggy and Lawrence, like those saying bring in shinnie and move Rooney further forward - it might be our only option, either that or Jozefzoon or Whittaker needs to become a hero.

[Millenniumram]

7 hours ago, Will Hughes Hair said:

I'm going to try and cheer you up.

I've just watched MOTD.  There was a focus on Bukayo Saka who was instrumental in Arsenal's win over Champions League chasing Wolves. He's 18 years old.

I've seen the lad play.  At Pride Park. And he was massively upstaged by Archie Brown, Morgan Whittaker, Louie Sibley, Max Bird and all.  Derby 5 Arsenal 2. Derby Under 18 Premier League National Champions.

Our youth may just be a little bit better than the rest of the league expect.

This is still on.

 

Oh I don’t doubt that at all - I’ve seen the youngsters play as well and they are top quality, you don’t win the U18s league for nothing. And it’s great to see them getting a chance, I just can’t help but feel it’s too much too soon for some of them though. Players like Sibley and Knight are obvious talents, but they’re being forced to play every game at the moment because there’s no obvious senior replacements for them that are any good. It’s a lot of pressure to put them under at a very young age.

It is still on of course, I’m just disappointed with the way yesterday’s results went. It’s take us down from about a 45% chance of making it to a 20% chance imo. Still possible, but far less likely.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

We have a long term injury and two stupid suspensions in the forward areas which have made us look like we have "almost no cover". I don't think that was a deliberate ploy by anyone, especially Mel Morris.

This is the thing though, we don’t have the strength in depth to really cope with those suspensions/injuries - and I wouldn’t say it’s an unusual amount of players to have out at once. We started the season with only Martin and Marriott as out and out forwards, so one injury left has left us with Waghorn as our only striker option - and he usually starts out wide. We also started the season with almost no natural wide men, which has led to us using Holmes and Knight out of position once Lawrence got suspended - a waste of both their talents imo. 

Like I say, it’s admirable by Mel to reduce the size of the squad so there’s always a path for the youngsters to come through, but I can’t help but think we might need a slight rethink next season. With how tight the schedule will undoubtedly be, squad depth will be vital so I can’t help but feel we need to increase the senior numbers slightly in the forward areas. With the amount of rotation required, there will undoubtedly still be chances for young players to break through.

[angieram]

7 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

This is the thing though, we don’t have the strength in depth to really cope with those suspensions/injuries - and I wouldn’t say it’s an unusual amount of players to have out at once. We started the season with only Martin and Marriott as out and out forwards, so one injury left has left us with Waghorn as our only striker option - and he usually starts out wide. We also started the season with almost no natural wide men, which has led to us using Holmes and Knight out of position once Lawrence got suspended - a waste of both their talents imo. 

Like I say, it’s admirable by Mel to reduce the size of the squad so there’s always a path for the youngsters to come through, but I can’t help but think we might need a slight rethink next season. With how tight the schedule will undoubtedly be, squad depth will be vital so I can’t help but feel we need to increase the senior numbers slightly in the forward areas. With the amount of rotation required, there will undoubtedly still be chances for young players to break through.

I don't agree with having huge squads and I think that post-Covid more and more clubs will be trimming the size of the ones they have. 

[Millenniumram]

24 minutes ago, angieram said:

I don't agree with having huge squads and I think that post-Covid more and more clubs will be trimming the size of the ones they have. 

Fair enough, I just like having more options. I can see the benefit to a tighter knit squad, but the number of injuries picked up at this level worries me. That said, I do agree that a lot of clubs will be cutting squad sizes this summer to save money. It’ll certainly give lots of young players chances that’s for sure. With our academy we should be in a strong position once it becomes more of a level playing field with everyone using their young players.

[Bob The Badger]

8 hours ago, Nick_Ram said:

So a wake up call is required, despite being the best team in the Championship as you say, because we drew 1 game?

It's a bit dramatic, don't you think?

I'm not sure we have the same definition of wake up call, I'm not suggesting anybody be tarred and feathered 

I just think we were poor in the second half against Reading, failed to dominate a poor Preston team and then looked awful for long periods against Forest.

So no, I don't think saying 'wake up Derby' is being dramatic.

Your response to me saying something so benign otoh  is dramatic.

[hintonsboots]

It was a good point in the end, but the Players need to sit down and watch the game as we did. I think lack of movement and an inability to break through the lines stood out for me, with only Sibley looking dangerous at times. I love the ball retention style Cocu is creating, but occasionally you need to change tactics and get it in the ducking box.

[Animal is a Ram]

It was a good point. But view the game in context.

That was Forest all over, and we fell right into the trap. Score, then they nullify us by going into full retreat, then go for a goal on the counter. And, as with Millwall at home, we've ALWAYS struggled against that pattern of play.

To say we 'hung on' in the previous games was a bit disingenuous. You can't pass a team to death for 90 minutes.  We kept them at arm's length, much like Forest did to us. But for better, more authoritative goalkeeping, we keep the Millwall second and the Reading goals out.