Coronavirus

[goldstar]

Not trying to rile people up but i am curious:

If we know for definite that each year the flu kills tens of thousands in this country but we carry on as normal with no restrictions even though it is widely accepted thousands of people will die, 

then this level of lock down, quarantine and hysteria doesn't make any sense to me. It is the unknown i accept that, so some changes would have made sense, but this is unprecedented. We are basically saying that flu deaths are inevitable, get over it, but now we need to take drastic action. 

This didn't happen with Ebola, didnt happen with Zika, didn't happen with Swine and Bird flu. By past actions of governments, i dont believe that only now they care about everyone's health and well being. So why now? I dont have any clue but i dont blame people being skeptical. Isn't logical to me in the slightest.

[richinspain]

4 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Not trying to rile people up but i am curious:

If we know for definite that each year the flu kills tens of thousands in this country but we carry on as normal with no restrictions even though it is widely accepted thousands of people will die, 

then this level of lock down, quarantine and hysteria doesn't make any sense to me. It is the unknown i accept that, so some changes woukd have made sense, but this is unprecedented. We are basically saying that flu deaths are inevitable, get over it, but now we need to take drastic action. 

This didn't happen with Ebola, didnt happen with Zika, didn't happen with Swine amd Bird flu. By past actions of governments, i dont believe that only now they care about everyone's health and well being. So why now? I dont have any clue but i dont blame people being skeptical. Isn't logical to me in the slightest.

Sorry but I've seen so many numbers lately that I can't remember which go where. Those tens of thousands of deaths, are they worldwide or in Britain? If it's worldwide then obviously we are now, or at least soon will be, seeing much larger numbers in each country. If those numbers are in Britain alone, then we have those numbers plus the thousands of CV sufferers inundating the health service.

[goldstar]

7 minutes ago, richinspain said:

Sorry but I've seen so many numbers lately that I can't remember which go where. Those tens of thousands of deaths, are they worldwide or in Britain? If it's worldwide then obviously we are now, or at least soon will be, seeing much larger numbers in each country. If those numbers are in Britain alone, then we have those numbers plus the thousands of CV sufferers inundating the health service.

Me too! 30000 - 60000 americans die each year from flu apparently, having trouble finding uk stats but the number is much higher than we are seeing now. 

This is just exhausting, but i cant be okay with how we just accept deaths from one thing every year without fail and thats okay.

Now, its not okay for this disease, and people dont see that is strange at all. 

[maxjam]

26 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Not trying to rile people up but i am curious:

If we know for definite that each year the flu kills tens of thousands in this country but we carry on as normal with no restrictions even though it is widely accepted thousands of people will die, 

then this level of lock down, quarantine and hysteria doesn't make any sense to me. It is the unknown i accept that, so some changes would have made sense, but this is unprecedented. We are basically saying that flu deaths are inevitable, get over it, but now we need to take drastic action. 

This didn't happen with Ebola, didnt happen with Zika, didn't happen with Swine and Bird flu. By past actions of governments, i dont believe that only now they care about everyone's health and well being. So why now? I dont have any clue but i dont blame people being skeptical. Isn't logical to me in the slightest.

Ultimately it's just a new strain of flu that 80% of those infected witll recover from with no problems, for the other 20% however it could get very serious very quickly. 

The lockdown is to ensure that the 20% that will need medical aid get it, if we let everyone get sick at the same time hospitals will become overwhlemed and have to decide who lives and dies rather than be able to treat everyone.  

I was a bit blasse at first tbh as I'm relatively fit and healthy and not in any at risk group, but its my duty not to pass it onto others if I do get it (potentially unknowingly) putting unnecessary additional strain on the NHS.

 

 

[cstand]

2 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Me too! 30000 - 60000 americans die each year from flu apparently, having trouble finding uk stats but the number is much higher than we are seeing now. 

This is just exhausting, but i cant be okay with how we just accept deaths from one thing every year without fail and thats okay.

Now, its not okay for this disease, and people dont see that is strange at all. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654
 

hope this helps

[goldstar]

6 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Ultimately it's just a new strain of flu that 80% of those infected witll recover from with no problems, for the other 20% however it could get very serious very quickly. 

The lockdown is to ensure that the 20% that will need medical aid get it, if we let everyone get sick at the same time hospitals will become overwhlemed and have to decide who lives and dies rather than be able to treat everyone.  

I was a bit blasse at first tbh as I'm relatively fit and healthy and not in any at risk group, but its my duty not to pass it onto others if I do get it (potentially unknowingly) putting unnecessary additional strain on the NHS.

 

 

Im not blase either as i know everyones health is important. 

Why now is my question? People are dying all over the world every day from a myriad of things that can be stopped but never will as lots of money from charities doesnt reach the intended destination and more money is made from treatment than cure. 

No one can answer that question. Why is this so important and why do they care about us so much now? So many people that didnt care about going to work ill before, coughing/sneezing mid air and exposing vulnerable people, now are scared for themselves and are preaching kindness and self isolation. Where was that attitude of kindness before? 

I cant answer that but i think there are  some things we're not being told.

Sorry for the rant

[Uptherams]

24 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Not trying to rile people up but i am curious:

If we know for definite that each year the flu kills tens of thousands in this country but we carry on as normal with no restrictions even though it is widely accepted thousands of people will die, 

then this level of lock down, quarantine and hysteria doesn't make any sense to me. It is the unknown i accept that, so some changes would have made sense, but this is unprecedented. We are basically saying that flu deaths are inevitable, get over it, but now we need to take drastic action. 

This didn't happen with Ebola, didnt happen with Zika, didn't happen with Swine and Bird flu. By past actions of governments, i dont believe that only now they care about everyone's health and well being. So why now? I dont have any clue but i dont blame people being skeptical. Isn't logical to me in the slightest.

This virus isn't in remote areas (Ebola), it is everywhere and is 35 times more deadly than flu and up to 80% of people could get infected. Once the hospitals are at capacity, that increases the mortality rate. Without the government stepping in and people adjusting, millions of people in the UK would die. Every step taken by the government and society leads to a decline in the potential total number of deaths. The government and CMO, etc, have witnessed that people are not being cautious enough.

The media might be targeting young adults for carrying on as normal, but there are large numbers of the elderly and those who have pre-existing conditions who have behaved irresponsibly. The people who will need hospitalisation and are at a significantly increased risk of dying. 

The government have the means to isolate 3-4 million at risk people, but the question remains if they have the baalocks to do that rather than effectively quarantining all of us in a months time or so. 

 

 

[goldstar]

3 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

This virus isn't in remote areas (Ebola), it is everywhere and is 35 times more deadly than flu and up to 80% of people could get infected. Once the hospitals are at capacity, that increases the mortality rate. Without the government stepping in and people adjusting, millions of people in the UK would die. Every step taken by the government and society leads to a decline in the potential total number of deaths. The government and CMO, etc, have witnessed that people are not being cautious enough.

The media might be targeting young adults for carrying on as normal, but there are large numbers of the elderly and those who have pre-existing conditions who have behaved irresponsibly. The people who will need hospitalisation and are at a significantly increased risk of dying. 

The government have the means to isolate 3-4 million at risk people, but the question remains if they have the baalocks to do that rather than effectively quarantining all of us in a months time or so. 

 

 

I get all your data and stats, but they know that millions are dying from cancer, do they ban products that have been proven to cause it (cigarettes, alcohol, Round Up). No they make too much money so let that carry on. 

Ebola had the potential to travel around the world given our links with Africa but some how was allowed to and luckily and somehow it didn't. 

My point is, if they were so concerned for our health, they would have implemented this a long time ago to stop all flu deaths but they didnt. So thats not why they are doing this

[Uptherams]

11 minutes ago, goldstar said:

I get all your data and stats, but they know that millions are dying from cancer, do they ban products that have been proven to cause it (cigarettes, alcohol, Round Up). No they make too much money so let that carry on. 

Ebola had the potential to travel around the world given our links with Africa but some how was allowed to and luckily and somehow it didn't. 

My point is, if they were so concerned for our health, they would have implemented this a long time ago to stop all flu deaths but they didnt. So thats not why they are doing this

Good points. Especially the sale of cigarettes. If there is one thing that should be banned from sale right now it's cigarettes. 

[Bob The Badger]

44 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Not trying to rile people up but i am curious:

If we know for definite that each year the flu kills tens of thousands in this country but we carry on as normal with no restrictions even though it is widely accepted thousands of people will die, 

then this level of lock down, quarantine and hysteria doesn't make any sense to me. It is the unknown i accept that, so some changes would have made sense, but this is unprecedented. We are basically saying that flu deaths are inevitable, get over it, but now we need to take drastic action. 

This didn't happen with Ebola, didnt happen with Zika, didn't happen with Swine and Bird flu. By past actions of governments, i dont believe that only now they care about everyone's health and well being. So why now? I dont have any clue but i dont blame people being skeptical. Isn't logical to me in the slightest.

Firstly, It is more infectious at a much earlier stage than the flu or ebola.

With ebola you were close to dead before you could pass it on.

Nobody went to work with ebola.

I read a book called Factfulness by Hans Rosling recently. 

Rosling, who sadly  recently passed away, was one of the leaders of the team sent in to fight ebola.

He admits they got lucky because it broke out in rural areas. He doubted they could have contained it if it had hit a major metropolitan area.

In any case, they contained it to West and Central Africa.

If  that had got out we'd probably not be talking now because it has a mortality rate of about 50%

As for Swine flu, Zika etc. I'm honestly not sure but I'd *guess* it was for similar reasons.

Secondly, with flu, most people have some resistance because we have been exposed to it so many times, but of course there are new strains that can be devastating to some people.

And again, people tend to know when they have the flu, whereas it's entirely possible to have Covid-19 and be asymptomatic. 

Thirdly, the mortality rate is at least 10 x that of flu and in Italy on current figures that is close to 50 x.

Fourthly, as has been demonstrated in Italy and suspected in Iran it has the capability to overwhelm hospital networks very quickly.

This then isn't just a problem for people with coronavirus, but people who get sick and need medical attention for something else.

If there are no ICU beds, then there are no ICU beds.

All in all it's an utter poo-show of a diseases and we have handled it terribly.

FWIW, my wife how is the designated tester for her Practice is down to having 2 masks left and doesn't know when they will get anymore.

 

[maxjam]

14 minutes ago, goldstar said:

My point is, if they were so concerned for our health, they would have implemented this a long time ago to stop all flu deaths but they didnt. So thats not why they are doing this

The key point is making sure that the NHS can function.  We have no immunity to this strain and any potential vaccine is months away.  If everyone gets ill at the same time people that would otherwise receive treatment and survive, die. 

The whole point of these measures is to allow a rolling percentage of the population to get CV and recover, increasing general immunity whilst keeping services available for those that need it.  If you had locked everyone away for a month before it took hold you would just be delaying the peak infection rates to a later date - sensible strategy is to let CV spread at a manageable rate and ensure those that will make a recovery to do so. 

[goldstar]

8 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Firstly, It is more infectious at a much earlier stage than the flu or ebola.

With ebola you were close to dead before you could pass it on.

Nobody went to work with ebola.

I read a book called Factfulness by Hans Rosling recently. 

Rosling, who sadly  recently passed away, was one of the leaders of the team sent in to fight ebola.

He admits they got lucky because it broke out in rural areas. He doubted they could have contained it if it had hit a major metropolitan area.

In any case, they contained it to West and Central Africa.

If  that had got out we'd probably not be talking now because it has a mortality rate of about 50%

As for Swine flu, Zika etc. I'm honestly not sure but I'd *guess* it was for similar reasons.

Secondly, with flu, most people have some resistance because we have been exposed to it so many times, but of course there are new strains that can be devastating to some people.

And again, people tend to know when they have the flu, whereas it's entirely possible to have Covid-19 and be asymptomatic. 

Thirdly, the mortality rate is at least 10 x that of flu and in Italy on current figures that is close to 50 x.

Fourthly, as has been demonstrated in Italy and suspected in Iran it has the capability to overwhelm hospital networks very quickly.

This then isn't just a problem for people with coronavirus, but people who get sick and need medical attention for something else.

If there are no ICU beds, then there are no ICU beds.

All in all it's an utter poo-show of a diseases and we have handled it terribly.

FWIW, my wife how is the designated tester for her Practice is down to having 2 masks left and doesn't know when they will get anymore.

 

Its all just a mess and sorry for your wife in such a scary and dangerous position. 

In any case i dont trust that our health is at the forefront of this, it may be 2nd or 3rd, but i think other things are at play here. Not a conspiracy theorist, just looking with a critical eye. Anyone else feel like we are in a mix of 1984, Hunger Games and The Purge? 

[Anag Ram]

6 minutes ago, maxjam said:

The key point is making sure that the NHS can function.  We have no immunity to this strain and any potential vaccine is months away.  If everyone gets ill at the same time people that would otherwise receive treatment and survive, die. 

The whole point of these measures is to allow a rolling percentage of the population to get CV and recover, increasing general immunity whilst keeping services available for those that need it.  If you had locked everyone away for a month before it took hold you would just be delaying the peak infection rates to a later date - sensible strategy is to let CV spread at a manageable rate and ensure those that will make a recovery to do so. 

Agree with you wholeheartedly though I would add that in the majority of cases  our bodies will defeat the virus unaided. Thing is, until you get it you won’t know.

And let’s not be fooled that the young will be okay. Plenty of cases of serious problems in the young, even where no underlying illnesses exist.

Everyone needs to be a bit sensible and patient. Most people understand that but some don’t give a flying buck about others.

[goldstar]

10 minutes ago, maxjam said:

The whole point of these measures is to allow a rolling percentage of the population to get CV and recover, increasing general immunity whilst keeping services available for those that need it.  If you had locked everyone away for a month before it took hold you would just be delaying the peak infection rates to a later date - sensible strategy is to let CV spread at a manageable rate and ensure those that will make a recovery to do so. 

But again why are they doing this for Coronavirus but happy for us to die around the world of plenty other things? It doesnt make sense that now they care it really doesnt. 

[Mafiabob]

If you can share this on your social media’s please I’ll be most grateful. 

[sonofmidnight]

Worldometer, corona virus, is full of statistics and makes interesting reading.

[Coneheadjohn]

Just in from work,still busy but not as bad.

The vast majority of people were lovely as usual,my only issue today was traders wanting to push past people and get preferential treatment.

Everyday’s equal and gets the same at the minute,everyone is getting most of what they want.

 

Interesting this morning was the sudden boom in alcohol sales.

[maxjam]

12 minutes ago, goldstar said:

But again why are they doing this for Coronavirus but happy for us to die around the world of plenty other things? It doesnt make sense that now they care it really doesnt. 

Because with  'regular' flu a large percentage of the population already has some sort of resistance to it and any outbreaks whilst putting the NHS under seasonal pressure are generally manageable - whereas no one has any immunity to CV, you don't know how bad you are going to get it until you get it.  If left unchecked that will mean the NHS becoming overwhelmed and unable to save (potentially thousands of) people that would otherwise survive (as is happening now in Italy).

[BarrowRam]

Wish me luck going shopping. Don’t know what scares me more Morrison’s or the Coronavirus.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, goldstar said:

Not trying to rile people up but i am curious:

If we know for definite that each year the flu kills tens of thousands in this country but we carry on as normal with no restrictions even though it is widely accepted thousands of people will die, 

then this level of lock down, quarantine and hysteria doesn't make any sense to me. It is the unknown i accept that, so some changes would have made sense, but this is unprecedented. We are basically saying that flu deaths are inevitable, get over it, but now we need to take drastic action. 

This didn't happen with Ebola, didnt happen with Zika, didn't happen with Swine and Bird flu. By past actions of governments, i dont believe that only now they care about everyone's health and well being. So why now? I dont have any clue but i dont blame people being skeptical. Isn't logical to me in the slightest.

I would add to this the fact that everyone in the West, particularly our Governments, were well aware of the situation in Hubei Province, then China as a whole throughout January & early Feb and brought in absolutely zero measures to stop it reaching the UK/Europe.

Even when the epidemic reached Northern Italy, we still had the Health Secretary merely asking (not requiring) people travelling from there to self-isolate. 

We still haven't got widespread testing in place so its complete guesswork who has it, who has had it & who hasn't yet had it. South Korea have brought in a massive testing programme & greatly reduced new cases.

This virus is either serious or it isnt. The actions of this Government (and many European Governments) has been to go from monitoring the situation to outright panic & draconian measures in a matter of 3 weeks and it's the general public who are suffering. Their actions border on the negligent.