maxjam Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Andicis said: In danger of stepping into politics, but it's rather convenient a lot of the places that were locked down elected one political party, and other areas that haven't been locked down are constituencies of prominent members of the other party and have even higher rates of infection than those other places that were locked down. Not sure what you're trying to say ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Albert said: Is Ebola an issue in the UK at the moment? No, neither is flu. Only 349 deaths up to the end of August remember. Again, it was merged for a plot, and you're losing your mind over it. The figures reported from the NHS, etc in daily hospitalisations are not. If you want the numbers of just Covid, look into those. I'm losing my mind over it? Saying silly things like this make you look...silly. Source? Cant remember, going to try and track it down. As I said may be wrong and wouldnt hang my hat on it. Notice you avoided the second part of that paragraph. So, because their responses have also been poor, it makes it okay for the UK? Denser countries have done far better than the UK, places like Taiwan, Vietnam, China, Korea, etc. Or maybe their responses are the norm and what would be expected for such countries. If you think quoting Chinas figures are a good idea then I must respectfully disagree. Because we've not been that competent. Victoria seriously dropped the ball on multiple levels, and there's an ongoing royal commission into that. South Australia, Western Australia, Queensland, Tasmania and the territories have been virtually Covid free for a long time, while NSW has managed to keep things virtually under control. There's also the question of accuracy of the data for many of the countries that you'd find on those lists of course, as few countries have as strong a testing regime as Australia. Again though, Australia is far from having handled this pandemic the best, but at the same time, it's response has been adequate, and shown a sound way of getting to 'Covid normal' so to speak. I'd give the country as a whole a C+. So, you've conceded you're wrong on this point then. Again, I read it, and explained what it said to you. It seems you're confusing me understanding what it said with not reading it. Yeah I will concede if is stops you from going on about it. I think the evidence I presented confirms that you just make your own interpretation of things to suit your agenda and then just bore the opposition into submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, jimmyp said: Merging Ebola with Covid would make no sense if it wasn’t a cause of death. Merging pneumonia with Covid makes lots of sense because it is a cause of death. Fair comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 This doesn't sound good news... "Prof Stephen Powis, the national medical director for NHS England, is speaking now. He says there are more patients in hospital with Covid than in March when the nationwide restrictions were imposed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: Not sure what you're trying to say ? We're all in this together though ?. Whilst Hancock sneers in pubs after 10 (allegedly), we had a national lockdown when the disease was mainly concentrated in the South, but now let's lock up the entire North, multiple people in power just blatantly ignoring the rules and now convenient targeting of certain constituencies. I'm beginning to think we're not all in this together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 27 minutes ago, rammieib said: Scary - although... 1) Good for immunity longer term 2) I think the daily cases will start falling quite significantly once they run out of students to test. 17,000 to 12,000 yesterday for instance. 3) I still fully believe this would have gone through a lot of students in Feb/March as well - but we had no testing capacity then. If we really genuinely knew just how many cases we were having back at the beginning of the year, I think everyone would be looking at the cases now in a different way. There are 2.5 million students in higher education in the UK. The latest figures I have seen (albeit in a newspaper article which was published at the end of last week) suggested that approximately 10,000 students had tested positive for covid-19 (half of which were at just four universities). Even if it were double that, it would amount to less than 1% of the total number of students - so 'running out of students' might take some time. I really hope that you are right regarding the possibility that more students had it during the first wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, TexasRam said: You’re not the only one I would say that in recent years, Australia hasn't had a great political reputation. Where the hell is our standing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: No, neither is flu. Only 349 deaths up to the end of August remember. Sounds like 349 deaths more than Ebola then. 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I'm losing my mind over it? Saying silly things like this make you look...silly. No, constructing conspiracy theories over such would make one look silly. 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Cant remember, going to try and track it down. As I said may be wrong and wouldnt hang my hat on it. Notice you avoided the second part of that paragraph. We have no data to discuss from, so any point made is moot until we have it. I'm happy to discuss once we have solid ground on which to do so. 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Or maybe their responses are the norm and what would be expected for such countries. If you think quoting Chinas figures are a good idea then I must respectfully disagree. China's initial numbers may be questioned by some, but there is no question that the virus is under control there. Even ignoring them though, there are plenty of denser nations than the UK with the virus under control. 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Yeah I will concede if is stops you from going on about it. I think the evidence I presented confirms that you just make your own interpretation of things to suit your agenda and then just bore the opposition into submission. I've not 'made my own interpretation'. They outright said it in the text. They're not required to make a new report for freedom of information, so won't. It's not a complicated point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, maxjam said: Virtually all of this has been discussed on here prior, but wowzers, that graph claiming that the flu and pneumonia tracks along at a solid 1000 people per day year round. That's a flat out lie, amazing they're trying to push that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, maxjam said: Very easy to use stats to support your opinions. The patients in hospital chart starts in April whereas the full on lockdown started in mid-March. Was this newspaper demanding there was no lockdown in March as so few were in hospital? They do start the deaths chart in March though, which again were very low for most the month (about the same level as we are now by looking at it). All the stats and charts posted on here, like this newspaper one, make the same mistake of ignoring where these charts might go over the next few weeks, especially if restrictions aren't abided. In March, we were all happy to lockdown to help us fight an unknown threat, which turned out to be pretty bad news and caused around 50k excess deaths. Now the threat is known, we seem to know it won't be as bad this time, based on what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said: Now the threat is known, we seem to know it won't be as bad this time, based on what exactly? Well if they push out patients back into care homes with covid this time it'd be criminal, in my opinion. That should lower the deaths a lot. There also is more effective treatments, and compared to March people have changed their behaviours. In no European country are we seeing the numbers from the start of the pandemic replicated now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Andicis said: We're all in this together though ?. Whilst Hancock sneers in pubs after 10 (allegedly), we had a national lockdown when the disease was mainly concentrated in the South, but now let's lock up the entire North, multiple people in power just blatantly ignoring the rules and now convenient targeting of certain constituencies. I'm beginning to think we're not all in this together. Yes unfortunately however if your average joe doesn’t follow the restrictions then we are very likely to suffer even more. It’s not very good. The government is also unlikely to offer more incentives for people to follow the restrictions when clearly so many aren’t. Covid is very good at doing social injustice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I would say that in recent years, Australia hasn't had a great political reputation. Where the hell is our standing now? Couldn’t care less about our political standing or Covid response vs OZ. It means nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, Albert said: Sounds like 349 deaths more than Ebola then. But less 'significant' than the number of people catching Covid in hospital. No, constructing conspiracy theories over such would make one look silly. What conspiracy theories are they? We have no data to discuss from, so any point made is moot until we have it. I'm happy to discuss once we have solid ground on which to do so. Thanks. China's initial numbers may be questioned by some, but there is no question that the virus is under control there. Even ignoring them though, there are plenty of denser nations than the UK with the virus under control. The fact that you think there is no question over anything that comes out of China shows a certain naivety. Are all of these denser countries global hubs? If not, they are not a good comparison. I've not 'made my own interpretation'. They outright said it in the text. They're not required to make a new report for freedom of information, so won't. It's not a complicated point. They also said they could not calculate the figure...only to release it less than 2 weeks later. You clearly are finding that too complicated to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Very easy to use stats to support your opinions. Yup, works for both sides of virtually every argument. Ask @Albert ? 7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: In March, we were all happy to lockdown to help us fight an unknown threat, which turned out to be pretty bad news and caused around 50k excess deaths. Now the threat is known, we seem to know it won't be as bad this time, based on what exactly? Bottom right hand corner of the graphic I posted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, Albert said: Virtually all of this has been discussed on here prior, but wowzers, that graph claiming that the flu and pneumonia tracks along at a solid 1000 people per day year round. That's a flat out lie, amazing they're trying to push that one. They're not saying that though, are they? They're saying the rate stays the same from June to September, which seems pretty reasonable to me. Maybe would help to read what is printed before you start suggesting anyone is pushing 'flat out lies'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: The outcome for people contracting Covid19 whilst being an inpatient is far more positive than the outcome of outpatients being admitted because of covid19. Anyhow the figure from memory was around 12.5% for reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, jimmyp said: The outcome for people contracting Covid19 whilst being an inpatient is far more positive than the outcome of outpatients being admitted because of covid19. Anyhow the figure from memory was around 12.5% for reference Still quite a high figure though. Maybe the data I saw was more up to date? I only saw it yesterday but cannot remember where it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyp Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: Still quite a high figure though. Maybe the data I saw was more up to date? I only saw it yesterday but cannot remember where it was. Hospitals and most care homes also have extremely good infection controls. You can see how easily Covid19 can spread. The study was done by Kings college who estimated it was around 12.5%. The newspapers have reported only the very top estimate (unlikely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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