Coronavirus

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, SIXTEEN AGAIN said:

There are good statistical reasons why only hospital deaths are recorded and used for planning, the main one being the certainty that the patient died after being tested for Covid-19, recording deaths in community and care homes despite what GP's have put on the death certificate is very dangerous.

For example i was present at a old person's sad demise and also had opportunity to view the death certificate .

Their death was recorded as myocardial infarction(heart attack) which did actually kill them, however this was because the heart wasn't able to cope with an operation for a condition unconnected to the cardiovascular system. There was no mention of the operation or condition on the death certificate (ie the root cause)

In the absence of any post mortem, this would not be challenged hence not recorded. Recording on death certs are hit and miss at the best of times.

It is quite possible that some deaths are/were being recorded as Covid when they were actually viral pneumonia and also being recorded as viral pneumonia when they were Covid, if no specific Covid test is done.

Yep was only talking about hospital deaths originally, the issue of care home deaths are more difficult to track and count hence it appears they are not in the figures? My worry is the figures are so ambiguous they can be spun every which way you choose whether you want to under count  or over count to fit any particular narrative 

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I'm not sure I would quite describe it as an utter disgrace just yet (apart from the care home crisis) and, as has been discussed at length, I'm not sure you can really compare countries that easily as there are far too many variables not least - what is actually being counted for each country. However, it's interesting that you have called out The Netherlands who's mortality rate per million of population is 261. Not massively less than the UK at 305. What about Spain, Italy and France? Belgium also 612 deaths per million of population (although I believe there figures do include care homes. I'm not sure about the others which reinforces the point I made about are we all counting the same things).

If we can compare countries, I'd be more interested in the likes of Poland (14 deaths per million), Austria (60), Denmark (73), Czechia (21), Portugal (89) Norway (37) but, as I say it's probably far too complicated to do a direct comparison.

Like you rightly say, Netherlands and Belgium are properly counting...not throwing out random daily stats to obscure the true picture & let's be frank, there is undoubtedly some information control going on here. As per my post, we are not subject to Schengen & our natural boundaries as an island should have given us a massive advantage over most western European countries. We should be nowhere near any mainland European country in terms of mortality rate per capita.

Re not being able to compare countries, interestingly the Government are saying something very similar, presumably to escape unfavourable comparisons. I fail to see why they shouldnt be directed compared with Germany, a similarly well populated & wealthy nation but a massive disparity in deaths, testing & ultimately impact on the economy. It's not good enough & the compliance of the media isnt helping. We haven't even closed the borders & seemingly no plans to do so, astounding. Makes me feel dirty saying it but I'm finding myself agreeing with Piers Morgan & his daily rants on GMB.

[GB SPORTS]

9 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yep was only talking about hospital deaths originally, the issue of care home deaths are more difficult to track and count hence it appears they are not in the figures? My worry is the figures are so ambiguous they can be spun every which way you choose whether you want to under count  or over count to fit any particular narrative 

Yes it is possible, but i still think that it is in everyone's interest to get a reliable dataset and straight recorded hospital deaths from positives test is the only certain way. i don't think the DOHSS have a vested interest in making the count inaccurate. The Daily Mail expose re a certain trust telling Consultants that they don't have to put Covid on the Cert will just be their "normal" way of recording deaths in general. By the way i have more confidence in what the DOHSS say about the numbers than the Trusts in general. (but i won't elaborate on that for professional confidence reasons).

Some trusts are very dogged in achieving accurate data sets on everything, whereas some are more slapdash (usually the poorer performing ones).

[Tamworthram]

7 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Like you rightly say, Netherlands and Belgium are properly counting...not throwing out random daily stats to obscure the true picture & let's be frank, there is undoubtedly some information control going on here. As per my post, we are not subject to Schengen & our natural boundaries as an island should have given us a massive advantage over most western European countries. We should be nowhere near any mainland European country in terms of mortality rate per capita.

Re not being able to compare countries, interestingly the Government are saying something very similar, presumably to escape unfavourable comparisons. I fail to see why they shouldnt be directed compared with Germany, a similarly well populated & wealthy nation but a massive disparity in deaths, testing & ultimately impact on the economy. It's not good enough & the compliance of the media isnt helping. We haven't even closed the borders & seemingly no plans to do so, astounding. Makes me feel dirty saying it but I'm finding myself agreeing with Piers Morgan & his daily rants on GMB.

The government might be doing it to avoid criticism or, it could actually be because there are too many variables to reasonably compare. Maybe I'm less cynical or more naive. I agree about being an island should be an advantage but then there are countries right next to each other on mainland Europe with big variations. I also guess, once it was here, it was too late to shut ourselves off from the rest of Europe.

Yes, you could compare us with Germany but, also why not compare us with Belgium? Even allowing for the fact they're including care homes their figure are grim. Or the Netherlands if they're not counting care homes? Or what about France? Spain may not be as wealthy as the UK but I'm not sure they're amongst the world's poorest nations. 

I just think we don't know enough to describe it as an utter disgrace (again, apart from the care home situation). We don't know if another political party would have dealt with it any differently and achieved a better outcome. 

I'm happy to say I've managed to avoid Piers Morgan so I have no idea what he's been ranting about. It is of course a lot easier to criticise with the benefit of hindsight and when it's not you having to make some very difficult decisions. 

 

[GB SPORTS]

On 24/04/2020 at 18:23, CWC1983 said:

Celebrity SAS. 

I got to just before the 1st advert break, it was ok, then it turned into the Katie Price look at me show. OFF. 

 

Did she get the plastic out? 

[RandomAccessMemory]

Something I've been wondering for a while, up until quite recently weren't they only testing hospitalised people?

Were they then only testing people that were there with suspected Covid-19 symptoms? I'd have thought so as tests were very scarce and it surely wouldn't have been a wise use of them on people who weren't symptomatic.

If so, how did only around a third of the total people tested come back positive? What was wrong with the other two thirds of people that meant they were ill enough to be in hospital with suspected Covid-19 that didn't come back positive?

This makes me wonder if these numbers would then also translate to the community deaths that are being announced weekly by ONS? For example if all suspected cases are being recorded/reported as such would that number not be likely overstated as not all suspected cases that were referred to hospital for testing came back positive, so the chance of all other suspected cases being positive is unlikely? Not that it would be any less tragic, of course.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Yep was only talking about hospital deaths originally, the issue of care home deaths are more difficult to track and count hence it appears they are not in the figures? My worry is the figures are so ambiguous they can be spun every which way you choose whether you want to under count  or over count to fit any particular narrative 

If what you are looking for is a trend, then the actual number is irrelevant if it is inflated or not - provided all the numbers are treated the same.

Different countries use different methods, so you have to be wary of comparing one country to another - but so long as a single country doesn't alter its own method, then it is possible to determine what actions within that country alone have resulted in a particular consequence.

[GboroRam]

12 hours ago, Eddie said:

If what you are looking for is a trend, then the actual number is irrelevant if it is inflated or not - provided all the numbers are treated the same.

Different countries use different methods, so you have to be wary of comparing one country to another - but so long as a single country doesn't alter its own method, then it is possible to determine what actions within that country alone have resulted in a particular consequence.

True to a point. If there is sufficient chaos in the system that the recording of death dates varies wildly, I'd say the data becomes meaningless. You can't plot a trend if the system effectively turns the data into a random number generator.

[SSD]

Thank you to the posters who have offered to find me work, I've been off social media/forums for the last couple of weeks whilst getting my work life sorted out. Thankfully, a couple of companies have offered me an interview in the last week. I'm still in the middle of handing over all my work to multiple colleagues at my old company.

It really is panic mode for many businesses at the moment. Regardless of what skills you have, sadly I don't think many people are safe from redundancy. For myself, I went from being an essential worker for the company to being let go within the space of 2 weeks. I'm handing over to people, with the greatest of respect, who have zero experience in the field of work I'm in. They were really unhappy and complained, the response was on the lines of "If you won't do it, we have no work for you."

It really hurt me for the first couple of days knowing that I was going to leave a job a really enjoyed. One door closes and another one opens, that's how I've tried to think about the situation. If anyone is worried about their job situation because of COVID-19, I'd recommend folks to update their CV's as soon as they can. I believe many HR people will be back at work by the end of May if they've been furloughed, which I think is when the jobs market will hopefully improve. I've applied for work where 350+ candidates have applied and it's not exactly glamorous work either. Not wanting to be negative, I thought I'd share what I've found so far whilst I'm still job hunting.

[GboroRam]

25 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

Thank you to the posters who have offered to find me work, I've been off social media/forums for the last couple of weeks whilst getting my work life sorted out. Thankfully, a couple of companies have offered me an interview in the last week. I'm still in the middle of handing over all my work to multiple colleagues at my old company.

It really is panic mode for many businesses at the moment. Regardless of what skills you have, sadly I don't think many people are safe from redundancy. For myself, I went from being an essential worker for the company to being let go within the space of 2 weeks. I'm handing over to people, with the greatest of respect, who have zero experience in the field of work I'm in. They were really unhappy and complained, the response was on the lines of "If you won't do it, we have no work for you."

It really hurt me for the first couple of days knowing that I was going to leave a job a really enjoyed. One door closes and another one opens, that's how I've tried to think about the situation. If anyone is worried about their job situation because of COVID-19, I'd recommend folks to update their CV's as soon as they can. I believe many HR people will be back at work by the end of May if they've been furloughed, which I think is when the jobs market will hopefully improve. I've applied for work where 350+ candidates have applied and it's not exactly glamorous work either. Not wanting to be negative, I thought I'd share what I've found so far whilst I'm still job hunting.

Best wishes to you Dan, and good for you in keeping your spirits up and remaining positive. Hopefully that will come across to any prospective employer. Wishing you well.

[B4ev6is]

3 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

Thank you to the posters who have offered to find me work, I've been off social media/forums for the last couple of weeks whilst getting my work life sorted out. Thankfully, a couple of companies have offered me an interview in the last week. I'm still in the middle of handing over all my work to multiple colleagues at my old company.

It really is panic mode for many businesses at the moment. Regardless of what skills you have, sadly I don't think many people are safe from redundancy. For myself, I went from being an essential worker for the company to being let go within the space of 2 weeks. I'm handing over to people, with the greatest of respect, who have zero experience in the field of work I'm in. They were really unhappy and complained, the response was on the lines of "If you won't do it, we have no work for you."

It really hurt me for the first couple of days knowing that I was going to leave a job a really enjoyed. One door closes and another one opens, that's how I've tried to think about the situation. If anyone is worried about their job situation because of COVID-19, I'd recommend folks to update their CV's as soon as they can. I believe many HR people will be back at work by the end of May if they've been furloughed, which I think is when the jobs market will hopefully improve. I've applied for work where 350+ candidates have applied and it's not exactly glamorous work either. Not wanting to be negative, I thought I'd share what I've found so far whilst I'm still job hunting.

I am glad manage to walk into another job but for me that would not be so simple.

[RoyMac5]

How is COVID-19 actually killing us?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/we-still-dont-know-how-the-coronavirus-is-killing-us.html

Quote

One month ago, as the country went into lockdown to prepare for the first wave of coronavirus cases, many doctors felt confident that they knew what they were dealing with. Based on early reports, covid-19 appeared to be a standard variety respiratory virus, albeit a very contagious and lethal one with no vaccine and no treatment. But they’ve since become increasingly convinced that covid-19 attacks not only the lungs, but also the kidneys, heart, intestines, liver and brain...

 

[Guest]

Anyone taken advantage of any Government financial support?

Received an e-mail today telling me to apply for my £10k small business grant, despite the fact that I had never requested it nor given any indication that I needed it!

Anyone else found that they are being offered money that they dont need?

[RamNut]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Anyone taken advantage of any Government financial support?

Received an e-mail today telling me to apply for my £10k small business grant, despite the fact that I had never requested it nor given any indication that I needed it!

Anyone else found that they are being offered money that they dont need?

Just send me any money you don’t need. I’ll find a use for it. Even if it’s propping open a door. 

[RamNut]

5 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

Thank you to the posters who have offered to find me work,

What work do you do?

[Guest]

Just now, RamNut said:

Just send me any money you don’t need. I’ll find a use for it. Even if it’s propping open a door. 

Without going for martyr status, I have informed the council that I do not wish to take up their offer of the grant.

The only thing I would possibly use it for is to clear my tax bill and this is due on profits that I have already made so I dont think that would be morally right.

[Rev]

23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Without going for martyr status, I have informed the council that I do not wish to take up their offer of the grant.

The only thing I would possibly use it for is to clear my tax bill and this is due on profits that I have already made so I dont think that would be morally right.

It's touching that you trust the local authority to spend it better than you.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

It's touching that you trust the local authority to spend it better than you.

I'm guessing local authorities will only be funded for businesses that take the grants

[Guest]

Was pleasantly surprised to hear that the Government were going to take questions from the general public, unfortunately I then heard today's question ?

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Was pleasantly surprised to hear that the Government were going to take questions from the general public, unfortunately I then heard today's question ?

It sounds like a great idea in theory but, it's like whenever questions and answers are published. They can choose the ones they want to answer.