Ruud Aralliss Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, CHCDerby said: I’m more disappointed that I forgot the game was on tonight. #wasteoftimecup Good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Andicis said: Maybe, but I'm not 10 years older. I don't think it's asking a lot of the manager of Derby to care about our rivalry with Forest and put out a respectable lineup. I don't think that should be a controversial opinion. I’m not saying it ain’t..... all I’m saying is see the bigger picture..... we’ve been knocked out a cup we are unlikely ever to win unless we got to a decent standard in the prem...... yes it’s Forest, but I’d rather a manager whose thinking way ahead about the league instead of someone trying to please the fans all the time. This will take time...... I firmly believe we will get somewhere with this guy, it’s about time we afforded some patience, however rocky it’ll get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, Mafiabob said: I’m not saying it ain’t..... all I’m saying is see the bigger picture..... we’ve been knocked out a cup we are unlikely ever to win unless we got to a decent standard in the prem...... yes it’s Forest, but I’d rather a manager whose thinking way ahead about the league instead of someone trying to please the fans all the time. This will take time...... I firmly believe we will get somewhere with this guy, it’s about time we afforded some patience, however rocky it’ll get Genuinely unsure about what is to be positive about so far in the season. I like that Jason Knight and Max Lowe are getting good game time, I don't have much else. We don't score very often. We're quite pedestrian. We are pretty slack at the back. I agree he should be afforded patience, however I don't believe in following blindly. I think Phil should be open to criticism, we're hardly firing on all cylinders and I think it's a bold call at best tonight, at worst utter stupidity. The mood around the City Ground in our end wasn't good at all. If Phil wants the time, he has to get the fans on side, it's not about pleasing them all the time, but showing you care about a game some consider the biggest of the season isn't an outrageous ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, ram1964 said: New manager with no experience of British football let alone the championship or a real concept of local rivalry between ourselves and the butt plugs He knows , he ignored it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Andicis said: Genuinely unsure about what is to be positive about so far in the season. I like that Jason Knight and Max Lowe are getting good game time, I don't have much else. We don't score very often. We're quite pedestrian. We are pretty slack at the back. I agree he should be afforded patience, however I don't believe in following blindly. I think Phil should be open to criticism, we're hardly firing on all cylinders and I think it's a bold call at best tonight, at worst utter stupidity. The mood around the City Ground in our end wasn't good at all. If Phil wants the time, he has to get the fans on side, it's not about pleasing them all the time, but showing you care about a game some consider the biggest of the season isn't an outrageous ask. I’m not following blindly far from it..... but I’d say there’s a fair few of us who couldn’t be bothered about the result either way tonight, you are entitled to think it’s a massive game..... for me massive games are play off semis and finals for Derby..... it’s where I’m at with it. I remember the calls for Smith to go back in 95..... you could see the makings of a good team back then. Patience is the key here.... folk didn’t care how football was played back then like they do now, granted..... I get that, but being short term has got us nowhere for so long now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: Anya is injured. But I don't see the reason for such big changes, we could have done with putting in a good game. Or even a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Mafiabob said: I remember the calls for Smith to go back in 95..... you could see the makings of a good team back then. Patience is the key here.... folk didn’t care how football was played back then like they do now, granted..... I get that, but being short term has got us nowhere for so long now. But can you see the makings of a good team? I'm more than happy to put up with a poo season, if I could see the signs, but I don't actually know what we're good at yet. We seem consistently mediocre across the board so far. Plenty of time for improvement, but we do need to actually improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Andicis said: But can you see the makings of a good team? I'm more than happy to put up with a poo season, if I could see the signs, but I don't actually know what we're good at yet. We seem consistently mediocre across the board so far. Plenty of time for improvement, but we do need to actually improve. I can see what he’s trying to do, I think we look a little light in midfield more than anything..... but if he strengthens right next summer. We will have a serious side. We’ve got rid of a lot of players..... it’s only been tonight where we’ve been out of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JfR Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Must say one thing I've found highly amusing after this result is Forest fans trying to make out like we weren't playing kids because their squad age tonight was slightly lower than our's, acting as though Sibley's and Whittaker's combined 18 minutes against Scunthorpe puts them in the same bracket as Joe Worrall with his 109 caps or the Champions League scoring Alfa Semedo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Is it 7 matches at city ground since we won there? Not sure atm just every time I’ve been ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyhill60 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Andicis said: But can you see the makings of a good team? I'm more than happy to put up with a poo season, if I could see the signs, but I don't actually know what we're good at yet. We seem consistently mediocre across the board so far. Plenty of time for improvement, but we do need to actually improve. My main concern is the lack of a goal threat. Waghorn, and Marriott, if selected, can score but they need far more help from the rest of the 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, Ruda Harliss said: I’m guessing you didn’t queue for 2 hrs for a ticket and actually go tonight . If everybody just sat on their backside waiting fit the long term plan to happen the support would be poor, from what I saw tonight the support was pretty/very piss poor anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, sunnyhill60 said: My main concern is the lack of a goal threat. Waghorn, and Marriott, if selected, can score but they need far more help from the rest of the 11. They can score, but we need to actually give them chances. Neither of them are getting close to an acceptable level of service so far, and like you say, the other players aren't exactly chipping in with goals to help out. I don't see where the goals are coming from either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, sunnyhill60 said: My main concern is the lack of a goal threat. Waghorn, and Marriott, if selected, can score but they need far more help from the rest of the 11. I've said this since pre-season, but I'd sack the wingers off. Lawrence is best drifting in, so let him. Bogle and Lowe will be fine offering width, so 'inside forwards' would work better. I think Cocu is a smart man, today was about creating more options although the severity may have passed him by. The only winger that I feel comfortable with at the moment, based on the football that I've seen this season is Mitchell-Lawson. He's got something nothing else has in raw ability. I think we should look at Lolley as a good example: a player who showed glimpses at Huddersfield, but couldn't get any consistency. Now, he's grown into a fine player, both on and off the ball. He was excellent tonight. We need someone to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: from what I saw tonight the support was pretty/very piss poor anyway. A sell out , were did you see it from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Aralliss Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, BobbyD said: Really makes me laugh when individuals profess to talk on behalf of all fans . So embarrassing Says so much about them as people The only time I spoke about other fans in my post was to suggest we, as fans trust in Coco. This comes from this forum and die hard fans that don’t contribute to the forum you, yourself embarrassed yourself by typing without reading the posts properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Ruda Harliss said: The only time I spoke about other fans in my post was to suggest we, as fans trust in Coco. This comes from this forum and die hard fans that don’t contribute to the forum you, yourself embarrassed yourself by typing without reading the posts properly I agree. I think we need to trust in Cocu, we have someone who has the methodology that we want/need and achieved results. I personally wouldn't have done it like he did tonight, but he finished fourth in a two horse race in his first year in charge and then won three league titles in four years making £100+ million in the transfer market. We're in the hands of someone who knows how to fast track young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAccessMemory Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Andicis said: Who can say how the Preston game would have ended with Bogle? But at least I left Accrington that day satisfied that we picked a strong team and actually tried to go out and win. We have little to no chance of winning the Championship at the end of it. Does that mean we shouldn't try? Absolutely not, that would be absurd. Winning breeds winning. I think we should play to win every game, I don't care if that's viewed as naieve, but if you don't give a poo about a local rivalry, why are you even in football? I would have started Marriott and I wouldn't have started 2 holding mids. But Lampard believed that was the strongest team to start with. You aren't telling me Cocu thought the 11 tonight was the strongest he could have picked. I'm not having it. No one can, but it was a possibility as we played Holmes in that position in his place (as we did yesterday). Whether we would have and then whether that would have made a difference to the rest of the season is anyone's guess. Our chances of winning the Championship (and lets not forget that to achieve our ultimate goal we don't actually have to win the Championship, we could come second or win the play offs and it still gets us what we want) are much higher than winning a cup, we are expected to be amongst the stronger teams in the Championship, where as there are at least 20 teams with more resources to call upon than us in the cups. If we actually ended the season with promotion would anyone really care about this result in the grand scheme of things? Actually, if we ended the season with promotion but lost 3 times to Forest during it (yesterday and twice in the league) would anyone care? We'd have achieved the ultimate goal of the season after all with the promotion. Games and seasons both hang on decisions that managers have to make, whether Cocu's team selection yesterday helps us in the long run will be something that no one can know at this point, but he's obviously made that choice for a reason. There's also no guarantee our strongest team would have won the game. Let's not forget we lost to Forest last season at their place in the league. If we'd have played our strongest team yesterday and lost because we're not in our stride yet what would that do to morale both in the camp and amongst the fanbase? Also, if we'd have played our strongest team and lost when would the young players get their chance to show Cocu what they can do? They wouldn't have played and there would be no more cup games until January. I posted in the Overreaction thread about how many games we ended up playing last season because of our cup runs, 57 games including cup and play off games, we apparently used 28 players throughout the season (Villa played 52 and apparently used 35) if we'd have had anything like the same amount this season and were expected to go close to full strength in all of them then that's an awful lot of games for some to play. We also have a smaller squad this season, and some players that already have injury issues, I don't think we could take those kind of unnecessary risks with players fitness or the potential of suspensions when promotion out of the league is more achievable (and vastly more profitable for the club) than winning a cup would be this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, BobbyD said: Really makes me laugh when individuals profess to talk on behalf of all fans . So embarrassing Says so much about them as people Yes, it does, doesn't it... On 11/08/2019 at 18:54, BobbyD said: This is marvellous The loser poster who gives up on making any legitimate decisions in favour of their statement you couldn’t make it up Thanks from all of uv us for making this Sunday highly so hilarious And please ..., keep going . That would be so great for all of us .... We are all waiting for you...... As you say, embarrassing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I feel really sorry for Cocu. I don't think the Derby job is the hardest in the division. But the circumstances he walked into were certainly more challenging than people appreciated and the lack of patience from the fans only adds to the challenge. He arrived eight weeks ago at a club reeling from a play-off final defeat and at a club who had just spent the whole summer being publicly toyed with by Lampard and Chelsea. He arrived eight weeks ago to a depleted squad - four key players (Mount, Johnson, Wilson and Tomori) from last season were gone and two more (Holmes and Marriott) carried major question marks over their long term fitness. He arrived eight weeks ago to a club whose fans had already anointed him King Phillip and were positive that his arrival would lead to a glorious promotion playing football in the classic Dutch style along the way. He arrived eight weeks ago to a club who had not really fully prepared for or anticipated his arrival and as such were scrambling around for signings with no obvious strategy in the final week of the transfer window. Cocu took a big risk taking this job and putting his reputation on the line. For his first job in English football, he certainly could have picked an easier job. I don't envy him at all when you sit down and take a moment to consider everything. How easy is it coming into a club with a recent history of impatient fans and an impatient owner? How easy is it coming into a club who expect to be competing for promotion year on year? How easy is it coming into a club where the gloom needed to be lifted? How easy is it coming into a club where the squad needed to be rebuilt? How easy is it coming into a club who thought signing Rooney and being on the front page of the Sun was more important than genuinely addressing five or six gaps in the squad? That's the reality facing Cocu. Give the man a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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