plymouthram Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 When the FA and EFL have done their investigation, lets be honest, what will be the outcome. There is nothing in the FA rules to cover other clubs employers spying on training and team tactics of an upcoming fixture against one of their rivals. So ther won't be any points deduction, replayed league match or massive fine to Leeds Utd. The only thing that will happen is the dirty Argentine might get a warning about his sporting behaviour or worse case scenario get a fine or touchline ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, 86 points said: Confused. Are we really 'tinpot' for discussing it? Sorry if we've offended your sensibilities mate. Blimey! Apologies @LazloW - completely misunderstood your post. If I understand you correctly you were saying we won't look tinpot not that we will? Too much rum my only excuse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will the Ram Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Lambchop said: Listen to Bielsa's press conference, which I've already posted. For me, Bielsa's straightforward admission comes across with more credibility and integrity than Frank blustering away from a moral high ground which probably doesn't exist, even in his own head. That's just my reading of the situation, which seems to be reinforced by numerous comments from others in the game. Believe what you want, obviously. He only admitted it because he got caught. He wasn’t sorry. He didn’t say he wouldn’t do it again he just avoided answering the question. Are you a Derby fan or a Leeds/Bielsa fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 For those who haven't seen it: https://www.foxsportsasia.com/football/1017548/marcelo-bielsa-isnt-the-only-one-to-spy-on-opposition-jose-mourinho-did-it-too/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/8590660/Chelsea-manager-Andre-Villas-Boas-is-an-analyst-who-leaves-nothing-a-chance.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, ViperRam said: To be honest, the journo which dug that story up has made Frank look silly. How on earth does it make Frank look silly? Because of a decision made by his manager at the time? Believe it or not, just because Frank was there, doesn't mean he agrees with it or had any power to stop it. Weird argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Will the Ram said: Are you a Derby fan or a Leeds/Bielsa fan? Can you not cope with someone having a different opinion without getting your pitchfork out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Andicis said: How on earth does it make Frank look silly? Because of a decision made by his manager at the time? Believe it or not, just because Frank was there, doesn't mean he agrees with it or had any power to stop it. Weird argument. Double standards If he was consistent in his views he would have called the police, reported it to the FA, and made a statement, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Lambchop said: Double standards If he was consistent in his views he would have called the police, reported it to the FA, and made a statement, surely? How is it inconsistent views that it's unethical and gamesmanship? He wasn't the person doing the offense? Let's be honest, nobody is going to go over their manager at the time, not even Frank. It's quite the ridiculous argument. I'd accept your point if he was the person doing the spying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Lambchop said: Double standards If he was consistent in his views he would have called the police, reported it to the FA, and made a statement, surely? If someone shinned up your drain pipe and peered in through your windows, how would you react? just asking on behalf of a friend like.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Andicis said: How is it inconsistent views that it's unethical and gamesmanship? He wasn't the person doing the offense? Let's be honest, nobody is going to go over their manager at the time, not even Frank. It's quite the ridiculous argument. I'd accept your point if he was the person doing the spying. I understand what you're saying, but it's how things look, isn't it. Frank's made a point of taking the moral high ground over this, yet a manager he admires and is closely associated with did the same thing. Effectively he's just called Mourinho a cheat as well. At the very least, it begs the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Lambchop said: I understand what you're saying, but it's how things look, isn't it. Frank's made a point of taking the moral high ground over this, yet a manager he admires and is closely associated with did the same thing. Effectively he's just called Mourinho a cheat as well. At the very least, it begs the question. Definitely begs the question, but then it also makes you wonder how much influence the players have and how much they know of what their manager is doing. I mean, did the Leeds players know what Bielsa was doing? My view on it is that it's fair game for him to call out Bielsa for it, since he can't really be blamed for the sins of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, Lambchop said: For those who haven't seen it: https://www.foxsportsasia.com/football/1017548/marcelo-bielsa-isnt-the-only-one-to-spy-on-opposition-jose-mourinho-did-it-too/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/8590660/Chelsea-manager-Andre-Villas-Boas-is-an-analyst-who-leaves-nothing-a-chance.html Don't understand the thinking here. Are you saying that what Bilesa did is ok because other folk have done it too? You're criticising Lampard for his reaction but giving Bielsa a pass. I'm struggling to understand the logic here. What do Jose and his minion have to do with how Derby conduct themselves anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, RamNut said: If someone shinned up your drain pipe and peered in through your windows, how would you react? I'd call an ambulance, my guttering is ducked. More talking about the reaction of the two managers than the inherent morality of the deed, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Andicis said: I mean, did the Leeds players know what Bielsa was doing? They'd have had to have known if he was making use of the information in training, surely. Same with Frank and Mourinho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lambchop said: They'd have had to have known if he was making use of the information in training, surely. Same with Frank and Mourinho. Not necessarily, your manager could just get the coaches to make you practice certain formations or tactics without telling you the reason why, I'm not convinced they would go out their way to admit it even to the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, 86 points said: Don't understand the thinking here. Are you saying that what Bilesa did is ok because other folk have done it too? You're criticising Lampard for his reaction but giving Bielsa a pass. I'm struggling to understand the logic here. What do Jose and his minion have to do with how Derby conduct themselves anyway? I'm not saying it's ok in and of itself, I'm saying we have to situate our reaction within the context of what goes on more widely. The relevance of Mourinho's past actions is that they cast doubt over the honesty of Frank's position. I'm not giving Bielsa a 'free pass' at all, but his position is at least consistent. Frank's may be too, but there is now a doubt; it will be interesting to see if he makes a statement to clarify things. Even if Frank genuinely didn't know what Mourinho was doing at the time, he must have learned of it since, because it's public knowledge. Strange that he would not be aware of how this would look when he condemned Bielsa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Andicis said: Not necessarily, your manager could just get the coaches to make you practice certain formations or tactics without telling you the reason why, I'm not convinced they would go out their way to admit it even to the players. As mentioned to 86p, if Frank didn't know when he was at Chelsea, he will certainly have learned of it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lambchop said: As mentioned to 86p, if Frank didn't know when he was at Chelsea, he will certainly have learned of it since. And maybe he didn't ducking like it. This thread is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Lambchop said: I'm not saying it's ok in and of itself, I'm saying we have to situate our reaction within the context of what goes on more widely. The relevance of Mourinho's past actions is that they cast doubt over the honesty of Frank's position. I'm not giving Bielsa a 'free pass' at all, but his position is at least consistent. Frank's may be too, but there is now a doubt; it will be interesting to see if he makes a statement to clarify things. Even if Frank genuinely didn't know what Mourinho was doing at the time, he must have learned of it since, because it's public knowledge. Strange that he would not be aware of how this would look when he condemned Bielsa. I understand your point but Bielsa has freely admitted to cheating whereas Frank's guilt is wholly unproven. Assuming that because Jose was underhand that the entire Chelsea squad was complicit is a big leap for me. Frankly, I don't even understand why we're questioning Frank's character with zero indication that he is of Jose's or Bielsa's ilk. Is there evidence of him cheating in his role as Derby manager? If not, surely the focus should be on Bielsa who has freely admitted that he has tried to gain an unfair advantage. If Frank goes down that route at any point in time then fair enough, let's call him out but casting shade on the basis of who he played under rather than his own actions is grossly unfair and I'm struggling to understand why a Derby fan would adopt that stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Roofe dives to win a penalty. Frank can't complain, Drogba used to do it. Bielsa has shagged Christine. You can't complain Frank, John Terry used to do it. You're going bald Frank. You can't complain, Ed De Goey was bald. It's ridiculous. Frank obviously doesn't like it. It isn't hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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