Carl Sagan Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 By my count, Saturday takes us to a very impressive 13 points gained from losing positions so far this season, with wins against Reading, Brentford, Birmingham and Wednesday, and the draw against Norwich. Have I missed any? Plus we came back from behind at Old Trafford and twice at Stamford Bridge. We surely have the famed quality of bouncebackability! I'd expect that to put us at the top of a league table for "resilience", but these things are no longer commonplace online and the only one I can find on https://www.transfermarkt.com/championship/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB has the wrong figures for us and may well for other teams too. Does anyone have an accurate table for this? Ultimately we don't want to fall behind in games and the secret to promotion is likely to be keeping more clean sheets, but gaining 13 points from the 10 games when we've given the opposition a head start is pretty good going and makes me think we have huge belief and confidence in the squad. Team spirit is vital in any promotion-chasing team and the management and players have done an excellent job of ensuring heads don't drop and we don't know when we are beaten. A long way to go but it makes me believe this might be our year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said: Team spirit is vital in any promotion-chasing team It is and this Derby team look to be oozing spirit! I think at Boro Pulis has instilled a mentality rather than a spirit and i expect that will see them up this season. But of all the teams chasing the other automatic spot - it may well be the one with the most spirit who manage to break away. It's us innit?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Well, apparently, if you don't fu**ing bounce... "For under 18's, that should read "If you don't jump and bounce..." :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said: By my count, Saturday takes us to a very impressive 13 points gained from losing positions so far this season, with wins against Reading, Brentford, Birmingham and Wednesday, and the draw against Norwich. Have I missed any? Plus we came back from behind at Old Trafford and twice at Stamford Bridge. We surely have the famed quality of bouncebackability! I'd expect that to put us at the top of a league table for "resilience", but these things are no longer commonplace online and the only one I can find on https://www.transfermarkt.com/championship/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB has the wrong figures for us and may well for other teams too. Does anyone have an accurate table for this? Ultimately we don't want to fall behind in games and the secret to promotion is likely to be keeping more clean sheets, but gaining 13 points from the 10 games when we've given the opposition a head start is pretty good going and makes me think we have huge belief and confidence in the squad. Team spirit is vital in any promotion-chasing team and the management and players have done an excellent job of ensuring heads don't drop and we don't know when we are beaten. A long way to go but it makes me believe this might be our year. Great analysis in a superb post; but are we a “team” or do we just have 2 or 3 outstanding players {Wilson Mount Marriott}? who keep winning us games? We look leaky really and we’ll concede. So how can we go to the next level? Do we shore up midfield a tad and risk losing some cutting edge, do we shore up defence {Tomori to right back?}? with Keogh and Davies at centre halves or do we just leave things as they are? What would thy do @Carl Sagan Sir? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, Ellafella said: do we shore up defence {Tomori to right back?}? with Keogh and Davies at centre halves Without any disrespect to Bogle, who i continue to be excited about and want to be our first choice right back in the prem next season, this one's a no brainer. Curtis Davies needs to be on the pitch. Tomori to right back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, Parsnip said: Tomori to right back. Will Chelsea allow that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, Parsnip said: It is and this Derby team look to be oozing spirit! I think at Boro Pulis has instilled a mentality rather than a spirit and i expect that will see them up this season. But of all the teams chasing the other automatic spot - it may well be the one with the most spirit who manage to break away. It's us innit?! This league is wide open, don't assume Pulis will get Boro promotion. The key is obviously having a good squad, coach/manager, team spirit etc. But the other key factors are having your best players fit and available for most of the season. So luck will play its part in what looks like being a very tight League. I remember everyone, especially media giving it the Leeds could be the team to catch after 7 games in. QPR being written off when they shipped in 7 goals at the Hawthorns, they are only 4 points off a play off place after getting a draw with the early seasons bookies favourite(Stoke City). Possible change to some teams fortunes, will rest with the next transfer window with them strengthening a good squad to push on with or losing one or two key players to other clubs. Wait and see, lets hope that come the back end of March the Rams are still in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 36 minutes ago, FindernRam said: Will Chelsea allow that ? I've never heard of a loan clause that specifies which blade of grass a player has to stand on at the start of a match. Anyway it's Frank. He owns Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said: Well, apparently, if you don't fu**ing bounce... "For under 18's, that should read "If you don't jump and bounce..." ? It's "If you don't funky bounce" - the words are on the back of the advertising boards ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Yes this league is wide open and you can go right to the bottom of the league at this stage and still pick teams capable of putting a good run together to make the top 6 at the end of the season when it matters. Millwall nearly did it last season. Preston North End are finding some form. Will Bristol City get their act together again. There will be a team in the bottom half just now that will find form soon and will be worth a bet and will be the season's suprise. Long way to go in The Championship Grand National and never right off the 100/1 grey blinkered horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 In this league, it's a skill a team needs to even think of getting in the top 6. Another is draw conversions. Do you go for the 3 and risk losing the 1 you can comfortably bag? I would say the team that goes for it wins the 3 more than loses the 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Ellafella said: Great analysis in a superb post; but are we a “team” or do we just have 2 or 3 outstanding players {Wilson Mount Marriott}? who keep winning us games? We look leaky really and we’ll concede. So how can we go to the next level? Do we shore up midfield a tad and risk losing some cutting edge, do we shore up defence {Tomori to right back?}? with Keogh and Davies at centre halves or do we just leave things as they are? What would thy do @Carl Sagan Sir? ? You've cut to the nub of it. Are we being saved by individuals? Perhaps, but good teams also have good individuals and we have fiercesome attacking talent in Mount, Wilson (loanees) but also Marriott, Lawrence, Waghorn, Holmes, Josefzoon (Bennett injured). By playing five attackers every game the team always has a chance of coming back, but it leaves itself vulnerable. But does shoring up the defensive side, whether midfield or defence, blunt our attack? I think any Championship team leaking goals with a fit Curtis Davies available needs to play him. So I would indeed rest Bogle and move Tomori to right back to try that for half a dozen games. Our way of playing relies on Keogh who is always available to receive the ball and carry it out of defence or to draw on the opposition to create the space the forwards needs. It's about risk vs reward, but without him teams could just park the bus. Tomori was surely brought in to play right back. Bogle has been immense, but I feel Tomori likely offers us more at this stage. If we had an exceptional defensive midfielder Frank believed in (ie not Thorne), I would consider bringing them in for Huddlestone, but we don't. Johnson is much improved but I would still prefer not to play him. Evans might be Frank's long-term plan, but doesn't have Big Tom's physicality or experience. And I think 4-3-3 suits us and always has so I wouldn't alter formation. Do I sacrifice my preferred advanced midfield of Mount and Wilson? I haven't seen Holmes. Bryson is a strong option. Johnson could come in there. I say no. I think Mount and Wilson's telepathic relationship gives us too much. I'd treat it like a science experiment when you change one variable in a complex system to see what the overall impact is. We're very close and have been very good so I think it should be about small tweaks. For me, just move Tomori to right back for now and see if that strengthens the defence enough without weakening the attack, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: I think any Championship team leaking goals with a fit Curtis Davies available needs to play him. I hope you are not meaning the Rams when you put the above sentence in. M'boro miserly 9 goals is stand out in the division so far this season but they have only scored 21 and have drawn 7 matches. We have leaked just 21 goals which is joint 5th best for goals conceded. 7 of them goals came in 2 matches against, at the time form teams in Leeds and Villa (thats a third of our goals conceded in two games). Got to agree with you though, love to see Keogh, Davies and Tomori all play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: You've cut to the nub of it. Are we being saved by individuals? Perhaps, but good teams also have good individuals and we have fiercesome attacking talent in Mount, Wilson (loanees) but also Marriott, Lawrence, Waghorn, Holmes, Josefzoon (Bennett injured). By playing five attackers every game the team always has a chance of coming back, but it leaves itself vulnerable. But does shoring up the defensive side, whether midfield or defence, blunt our attack? I think any Championship team leaking goals with a fit Curtis Davies available needs to play him. So I would indeed rest Bogle and move Tomori to right back to try that for half a dozen games. Our way of playing relies on Keogh who is always available to receive the ball and carry it out of defence or to draw on the opposition to create the space the forwards needs. It's about risk vs reward, but without him teams could just park the bus. Tomori was surely brought in to play right back. Bogle has been immense, but I feel Tomori likely offers us more at this stage. If we had an exceptional defensive midfielder Frank believed in (ie not Thorne), I would consider bringing them in for Huddlestone, but we don't. Johnson is much improved but I would still prefer not to play him. Evans might be Frank's long-term plan, but doesn't have Big Tom's physicality or experience. And I think 4-3-3 suits us and always has so I wouldn't alter formation. Do I sacrifice my preferred advanced midfield of Mount and Wilson? I haven't seen Holmes. Bryson is a strong option. Johnson could come in there. I say no. I think Mount and Wilson's telepathic relationship gives us too much. I'd treat it like a science experiment when you change one variable in a complex system to see what the overall impact is. We're very close and have been very good so I think it should be about small tweaks. For me, just move Tomori to right back for now and see if that strengthens the defence enough without weakening the attack, I would do that too. I do rate Bogle; he’s a tremendous player so good in fact that we forget he’s just 18 and although Cloughie always chimed “if you’re good enough you’re old enough” I do think teams will strategically target our right-back position. I would move Tomori there and bring Davies in. Other than that I quite like FL’s “organic” team selection; I like how he swaps it. I can’t help thinking though that Marriott will soon become a target for some heavy treatment {probably starting at Stoke} and Wilson and Mount too. I’ve heard that Frank may go back to Chelsea for the young winger; I do hope so. I really like his reliance on youth...fast, energetic, confident ball-players who have raw energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Ellafella said: but are we a “team” or do we just have 2 or 3 outstanding players {Wilson Mount Marriott}? who keep winning us games? Most good "teams" have 2 or 3 outstanding individuals who keep winning them games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Carnero said: Most good "teams" have 2 or 3 outstanding individuals who keep winning them games! Yes true @Carnero; do we only have those though? We beat Wednesday yesterday but could have lost it. Are those outstanding players of ours masking a very average team otherwise? I’m not sure myself...I do feel uncomfortable relying on individualists though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Carnero said: Most good "teams" have 2 or 3 outstanding individuals who keep winning them games! Wolves had more than 2or 3 outstanding players last season and went up as champions. On the other hand Cardiff had no outstanding players and got runners up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, philmycock said: It's "If you don't funky bounce" - the words are on the back of the advertising boards ? Are they really? I've never noticed! Ha, Ha! ... Anyway "Jump and bounce" is what we taught our grandkids... and it makes a damn sight more sense than bloody "If you don't funky bounce"! What even does that mean!! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Just now, Mucker1884 said: Are they really? I've never noticed! Ha, Ha! ... Anyway "Jump and bounce" is what we taught our grandkids... and it makes a damn sight more sense than bloody "If you don't funky bounce"! What even does that mean!! LOL! Did we steal it from Wednesday? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Sounds like we stole it from some yoof street dance troupe on BGT!! ...innit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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