Nijul_cluff Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Jourdan said: Usually a deal like this would make me angry. But after the Ince and Hughes deals last season, I decided I'll save my anger for my local Tesco no longer stocking apricot brandy and other such atrocities. But what I will say is that this looks like a mistake and a move that could come back to haunt us, especially if Leeds have a successful season. I can understand selling a player if you are under financial pressure or financial constraints and especially so if you can extract maximum value out of that sale, boost the club's finances and trim the wage bill in the process. But it doesn't look like we have done that, to be brutally honest. The money we're receiving for Vydra is being spent and soon we'll have two more players on the wage bill, so in essence financially we have stood still. There has been no relief at all. People are saying that Vydra doesn't fit the system and doesn't fit with Lampard's philosophy but how do we know? He hasn't played a single minute of pre-season and he hasn't been given a chance alongside our new signings, because before Frank had even arrived, it was clear that Vydra would be this year's sacrificial lamb. It's just puzzling to me that we have the league's top scorer, a player we were patient with and waited for him to shine. Now he finally has and we're letting him go rather than seeing how he could be incorporated into this more attacking, more exciting, more dynamic team. Personally I would have felt a lot more confident with Vydra in the attack going into the new season. Marriott is entirely unproven at this level and Waghorn has had a mixed career, so it's a massive risk to let go of Vydra coming off the best season of his career. We know he can produce at this level because he has done it multiple times. I simply would have kept Vydra and forgotten about signing the other two, but let's hope Frank is vindicated. So for me, after all the excitement generated with the initial signings, what has transpired since is the disappointing bump back down to Earth that nobody wanted or needed. What if Leeds have a successful season but vydra only scores 3 goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Every one keeps banging on about Vyds. Yes he was pretty much our saviour in a pretty dour season. Let's be honest, if the way we played last season is the only way Vyds fits in, then I am happy to say - thank you very much I hope all goes well in your next move. I loved seeing him banging in the goals, but if he isn't going to fit in with the style(s) and formation(s) that Frank is playing, then why not cash in while his stock is high. He is a confidence player and we have seen that, he may well go to Leeds (or wherever) and find he struggles to fit straight in and not score (ala his first season with us) he might go and be a revelation. Which ever, I wish him the best. If I could guarantee another 20 goals with this new team, I would say stay (I am sure Frank feels the same) But it is far from that guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Ennui Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 People keep saying he's untested in our new system but Lampard will have had a number of training sessions with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, BathRam72 said: Every one keeps banging on about Vyds. Yes he was pretty much our saviour in a pretty dour season. Let's be honest, if the way we played last season is the only way Vyds fits in, then I am happy to say - thank you very much I hope all goes well in your next move. I loved seeing him banging in the goals, but if he isn't going to fit in with the style(s) and formation(s) that Frank is playing, then why not cash in while his stock is high. He is a confidence player and we have seen that, he may well go to Leeds (or wherever) and find he struggles to fit straight in and not score (ala his first season with us) he might go and be a revelation. Which ever, I wish him the best. If I could guarantee another 20 goals with this new team, I would say stay (I am sure Frank feels the same) But it is far from that guarantee. Vydra suited Rowett kick and rush tactics.scored some crackers last year , but we should be sharing out the goals this year. Shame a big club hasn't come in for him, as I would have hoped to get more than £ 11 million for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Separate question, I had a look at everyone’s new strip, why is it that about a third of the championship sponsored by 32 Red , I have never seen that before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 53 minutes ago, RamNut said: (Who's malcolm?) Don't know but I think he plays in the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said: Separate question, I had a look at everyone’s new strip, why is it that about a third of the championship sponsored by 32 Red , I have never seen that before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Jourdan said: Usually a deal like this would make me angry. But after the Ince and Hughes deals last season, I decided I'll save my anger for my local Tesco no longer stocking apricot brandy and other such atrocities. But what I will say is that this looks like a mistake and a move that could come back to haunt us, especially if Leeds have a successful season. I can understand selling a player if you are under financial pressure or financial constraints and especially so if you can extract maximum value out of that sale, boost the club's finances and trim the wage bill in the process. But it doesn't look like we have done that, to be brutally honest. The money we're receiving for Vydra is being spent and soon we'll have two more players on the wage bill, so in essence financially we have stood still. There has been no relief at all. People are saying that Vydra doesn't fit the system and doesn't fit with Lampard's philosophy but how do we know? He hasn't played a single minute of pre-season and he hasn't been given a chance alongside our new signings, because before Frank had even arrived, it was clear that Vydra would be this year's sacrificial lamb. It's just puzzling to me that we have the league's top scorer, a player we were patient with and waited for him to shine. Now he finally has and we're letting him go rather than seeing how he could be incorporated into this more attacking, more exciting, more dynamic team. Personally I would have felt a lot more confident with Vydra in the attack going into the new season. Marriott is entirely unproven at this level and Waghorn has had a mixed career, so it's a massive risk to let go of Vydra coming off the best season of his career. We know he can produce at this level because he has done it multiple times. I simply would have kept Vydra and forgotten about signing the other two, but let's hope Frank is vindicated. So for me, after all the excitement generated with the initial signings, what has transpired since is the disappointing bump back down to Earth that nobody wanted or needed. He scored 22 goals of which 7 were penalties but his general play was poor even in his preferred position. I think he just had one of his 1 in 3 seasons when he takes a high percentage of his chances. When he was played in a 433 he was awful and really doesn't have the skill set or temperament for that. I would have hoped for more than the reported £11m but perhaps there is a story in that fee, in terms of other managers opinions of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I believe there are a few questions Mel and Frank have discussed both at length and in great detail. Namely does Frank see Vyds in his first choice 11. I think looking at our signings mostly forward players and the fact he has featured very little in pre-season Then answer to this question is No. Secondly who out of the surplus playing staff who would help to fund Franks rebuild as monies tight. The only person we had a good/any offer for is Vyds . So no other option at present. Thirdly has Vyds both had his best scoring season he is going to have with us and also reached the zenith of his transfer value.Thier judgement call on both accounts is yes. So it makes logical sense to sell now.. Finally the sale would give the club breathing space with regard to FFP and further help in reshaping of the squad. It seems to be a well thought out sound logical decision taken on the basis of justifiable financial and sporting reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Jourdan said: Usually a deal like this would make me angry. But after the Ince and Hughes deals last season, I decided I'll save my anger for my local Tesco no longer stocking apricot brandy and other such atrocities. But what I will say is that this looks like a mistake and a move that could come back to haunt us, especially if Leeds have a successful season. I can understand selling a player if you are under financial pressure or financial constraints and especially so if you can extract maximum value out of that sale, boost the club's finances and trim the wage bill in the process. But it doesn't look like we have done that, to be brutally honest. The money we're receiving for Vydra is being spent and soon we'll have two more players on the wage bill, so in essence financially we have stood still. There has been no relief at all. People are saying that Vydra doesn't fit the system and doesn't fit with Lampard's philosophy but how do we know? He hasn't played a single minute of pre-season and he hasn't been given a chance alongside our new signings, because before Frank had even arrived, it was clear that Vydra would be this year's sacrificial lamb. It's just puzzling to me that we have the league's top scorer, a player we were patient with and waited for him to shine. Now he finally has and we're letting him go rather than seeing how he could be incorporated into this more attacking, more exciting, more dynamic team. Personally I would have felt a lot more confident with Vydra in the attack going into the new season. Marriott is entirely unproven at this level and Waghorn has had a mixed career, so it's a massive risk to let go of Vydra coming off the best season of his career. We know he can produce at this level because he has done it multiple times. I simply would have kept Vydra and forgotten about signing the other two, but let's hope Frank is vindicated. So for me, after all the excitement generated with the initial signings, what has transpired since is the disappointing bump back down to Earth that nobody wanted or needed. This is also my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I must admit that it does seem odd that we are in the process of selling our POTY and golden boot winner and the general, though obviously not universal, consensus is sort of positive about the move (or at least there isn't the wailing and gnashing of teeth you might normally expect). I think we can live without him and if FL wants to build his own team then perhaps selling Vydra is the only way he can do that to the extent he thinks is needed. Slightly disappointed by the reported fees being bandied around and that a PL club aren't in for him (but does that speak volumes in itself?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, sage said: I would have hoped for more than the reported £11m but perhaps there is a story in that fee, in terms of other managers opinions of him. That’s the thing which is bugging me. Regardless of the reasons for the sale, financial or positional, this time you can’t fault Derby for jumping at the first offer and running away with the cash. It’s been widely known that Vydra is available this summer yet once again, only one club appears to be interested, makes it impossible to trigger a bidding war which is a real kicker, would have liked to have seen a bit more than the £11m but what can you do? 17/18 Championship Golden Boot Winner, one club interested. League One Golden Boot Winner, multiple clubs in for the lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, David said: That’s the thing which is bugging me. Regardless of the reasons for the sale, financial or positional, this time you can’t fault Derby for jumping at the first offer and running away with the cash. It’s been widely known that Vydra is available this summer yet once again, only one club appears to be interested, makes it impossible to trigger a bidding war which is a real kicker, would have liked to have seen a bit more than the £11m but what can you do? 17/18 Championship Golden Boot Winner, one club interested. League One Golden Boot Winner, multiple clubs in for the lad. It simply means statistics are only half the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Ennui Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Also wage demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Bielsa plays a 3 3 3 1 formation. I presume he wants Vydra to play in the middle of the most forward three. This will leave 6 players behind him and his 2 colleagues. I would put Leeds down on my 'both sides to score' bet every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, sage said: It simply means statistics are only half the story. 47.83% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, eddie said: 47.83% Fool. It's much nearer 47.84%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffle Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I think Vydra will thrive under Bielsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 10 hours ago, chelloram said: I don't get all the anti Vydra sentiment. He was outstanding for us last season, far superior to anything Lawrence showed, but Lawrence is suddenly flavour of the month. Vydra is a better finisher and his awareness of players movement around him was at a level Lawrence could only dream about last season but it seems that the majority of people would rather see him go if 10 million or thereabouts was on offer for either of them. Don't get me wrong, I would love it if I'm wrong and Lawrence comes good this year buy let's be honest he was dire for the majority of last season and only kept his place in the team because of the snakes inability to admit his marquee signing needed dropping. I think he'll struggle to fit in with the intelligent players we've inherited such as Mount and Wilson but here's hoping I'm proved wrong and we're all celebrating a fantastic season for him in a few months but I honestly feel he'll continue to frustrate?. Before anyone states how young he is, don't forget he is 24, not much younger than Vydra. Ayyyyy and we’ve managed to use Vydras sale to bash Lawrence. Too bunch of fans us! The reason Lawrence is flavour of the month is because he’s going to be played in a dynamic front 3 with the shackles off rather than a left midfielder for Rowett... Jesus last summer he was touted as one of the most dangerous players in the division. I’m willing to put good money on Ince not scoring as many goals for Stoke as he did for us before he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, sage said: Bielsa plays a 3 3 3 1 formation. I presume he wants Vydra to play in the middle of the most forward three. This will leave 6 players behind him and his 2 colleagues. I would put Leeds down on my 'both sides to score' bet every week. For what it’s worth, Leeds have lined up 4-1-4-1 in all of their pre-season games so far, bar one where they attempted a 3-5-2. I assume once Bielsa gets the men he wants, he’ll change the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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