Thank you Mel

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Ah, now this post makes more sense. Yes we all make mistakes but we don't own football clubs and this guru of the business world has made some pretty basic fubar because he was/is a fan and he fell into a trap. He over invested, simple and now the business model (by his own admission), is not sustainable. 

The business model was not sustainable before he took over either was it?

Not looked back at accounts but I seem to remember that GSE were funding us to the tune of somewhere between £7m and £9m a year and this was at a time when our main signings were 'Barker type fees'.

[RiddingsRam]

44 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Ah, now this post makes more sense. Yes we all make mistakes but we don't own football clubs and this guru of the business world has made some pretty basic fubar because he was/is a fan and he fell into a trap. He over invested, simple and now the business model (by his own admission), is not sustainable. What pees me off more than anything, is this local crap, who's a Derby fan.. It means nothing. You are 100% right, he will make mistakes, I have made mistakes and do you know what... I am answerable for them.. Why should he be different? I have a budget that runs into the tens of millions. I am answerable every month for it. If i make too many bad decisions, I am out. 

Appointments, recruitment, support groups, whatever, his choices. We can't just say, oh well, never mind. He is the custodian of the club today... So answerable to us. 

 

Regarding the over investment it was **** or bust. If we had of fine up that year it would of been money well spent , we didn't obviously but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Plus at the time if he had not invested we would have 3 fit midfield players and I for one wasn't moaning when we made the signings we did. 

I don't get that it means nothing being from Derby , it might not to you but it does to me. From a business prospective it makes no odds if hes from Timbuktu but as a sentiment and feeling part of something it makes a difference. I feel that our owner is a fan.

[Angry Ram]

23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The business model was not sustainable before he took over either was it?

Not looked back at accounts but I seem to remember that GSE were funding us to the tune of somewhere between £7m and £9m a year and this was at a time when our main signings were 'Barker type fees'.

As far as I am aware, we were never really in a FFP position.. When did FFP start ffs? I'm old and my memory is not what it was. The business model was different for sure.. Is that not one of Mels problems.. Too excited and went against what he knew was normal best practice? Is that the downside of a fan owning a club? Normal rational decisions that he would make in other business areas not applying? To be fair, I would have probably done the same and splashed the cash if I had his money and was in his situation.

On the plus side, he seems to have detached himself from the fan side of running a club and we are now seeing better business decisions. As much as I don't want to hear what he has been saying about the finances for next year.. They are the right noises. It is not sustainable. 

Promotion of course will change the picture and it will be interesting to see how the club react to those extra revenue streams. Poo or bust to stay up, or more of a Cardiff approach of loyalty to players who will probably struggle in the PL. Have we as a club backed ourself into a corner with the decisions on the current squad? Short term planning ha smaybe now forced us into option A, spend big. Maybe, maybe not.. Like I said it will be interesting.

[archied]

I see a lot bemoaning mel taking us close to ffp limits but the truth is to give yourself a regular chance of going up you really have to at least be right on the limit of those or do as others and just break the rules and hope it comes off and you go up ,, 

the alternative is not very attractive either ,,, staying mid table or flirting relegation in the championship is a money loss pit ,, gse we’re losing money every year even just to stand still and that with clough who was pretty decent at getting budget players ,

im not saying don’t criticise Morris fairly for mistakes but ffs don’t pretend that it’s simple to run a club like derby , from what I can see Morris is trying to sail as close to the wind in terms of ffp funded from his own pocket to give the club the best chance of going up without the all or nothing **** or bust gamble that could cripple the club if it doesn’t come off ,,it’s not just us, there’s a hell of a lot of clubs of our stature struggling to get it right too and some also not in a position to even take the kind of run at it that Morris is affording us just now but hey ho let’s just keep on slating the bloke ,questioning his integrity and wanting him gone ( yes not all but enough on here with that attitude) that as far as I can see are comming from a green eyed the blokes got a few bob so hate him type of stance

 

[archied]

12 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

As far as I am aware, we were never really in a FFP position.. When did FFP start ffs? I'm old and my memory is not what it was. The business model was different for sure.. Is that not one of Mels problems.. Too excited and went against what he knew was normal best practice? Is that the downside of a fan owning a club? Normal rational decisions that he would make in other business areas not applying? To be fair, I would have probably done the same and splashed the cash if I had his money and was in his situation.

On the plus side, he seems to have detached himself from the fan side of running a club and we are now seeing better business decisions. As much as I don't want to hear what he has been saying about the finances for next year.. They are the right noises. It is not sustainable. 

Promotion of course will change the picture and it will be interesting to see how the club react to those extra revenue streams. Poo or bust to stay up, or more of a Cardiff approach of loyalty to players who will probably struggle in the PL. Have we as a club backed ourself into a corner with the decisions on the current squad? Short term planning ha smaybe now forced us into option A, spend big. Maybe, maybe not.. Like I said it will be interesting.

Wolves owner not a fan but they chose the **** or bust option so maybe it not all sentiment driven

[Angry Ram]

11 minutes ago, RiddingsRam said:

Regarding the over investment it was **** or bust. If we had of fine up that year it would of been money well spent , we didn't obviously but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Plus at the time if he had not invested we would have 3 fit midfield players and I for one wasn't moaning when we made the signings we did. 

I don't get that it means nothing being from Derby , it might not to you but it does to me. From a business prospective it makes no odds if hes from Timbuktu but as a sentiment and feeling part of something it makes a difference. I feel that our owner is a fan.

Was the investment fee **** or bust? They have always said that they will not breach FFP, so they knew the ramifications. It's not just about the 3 fit midfielders though is it. It's a culmination of poor spending and talent identification. 

On the local ownership, we will have to agree to disagree. That's fine, if it's important to you the absolutely no problem from me. All I say is don't let it cloud judgement and become a justification for poor decisions. For the record, I would love him to be the best owner we have ever had. However even if he does reach those dizzy heights, I/we as fans still have the right to say WTF was that Mel? Just as we will do to any manager who currently sits in the hot seat. I have supported Rowett but still cannot for the life of me understand what he is doing sometimes. 

At least we can discuss differences without histrionics, which is great. Thanks..

I'm going to back out of the Morris debate now. 

[ariotofmyown]

What a ***** thread just a few days before the playoffs. We've got a whole summer to moan about things, why choose this weak to have a go at Mel.

Love how we had the constant moaning about Clough back in the day. Now they are the glory days to the 'total mess' we find ourselves in.

3 playoffs in 6 years isn't too bad vs the previous 15 or so.

[eddie]

[Comrade 86]

7 hours ago, reveldevil said:

Taken from the price of football article, which has it's own thread, it is in the accounts.

SevCo 5112 owed Mel Morris over £95 million at 30 June 2017, and he’s subsequently given them a further £21 million to keep them afloat since that date. This appears to be interest free, which is good to see. 

SevCo have other loans of about £45 million on top of Mel Morris’s generosity.

SevCo has received £161 million since 2015 from investors in the form of loans and shares.

OK, I've held my tongue as long as I'm going to.

Are you are aware that SevCo 5112 and Derby County FC legally separate entities? SevCo's debts are not Derby's. You've argued that Derby County owes MM many tens of £millions but your post details the debts of another company altogether. Derby County FC are not in any way legally responsible for SevCo's debts which is most likely one of the reasons this transactional model was put in place. That is, to give the club a copper-bottomed guarantee that should Mel have a change of heart, it would be to his cost and not that of the club itself. 

On a general note, I really wish non-finance folk would stick to footballing matters instead of pointlessly mud-slinging based on nothing more than personal grudges, hearsay and BS rumours from mysterious but uncited 'sources'. Especially a day or two before a play-off. This thread was posted by someone looking to say 'thank you' to our owner and has been hijacked by the usual anti-Morris clique who, given our success in securing a place in the play-offs, have now resorted to attacking the club on the basis of ill-considered and inaccurate portrayals of our financial standing. It boggles the mind how faithless some folk on here really are.

 

[Carnero]

4 minutes ago, 86 points said:

OK, I've held my tongue as long as I'm going to.

Are you are aware that SevCo 5112 and Derby County FC legally separate entities? SevCo's debts are not Derby's. You've argued that Derby County owes MM many tens of £millions but your post details the debts of another company altogether. Derby County FC are not in any way legally responsible for SevCo's debts nor vice versa which is most likely one of the reasons this transactional model was put in place. That is, to give the club a copper-bottomed guarantee that should Mel have a change of heart, it would be to his cost and not that of the club itself. 

On a general note, I really wish non-finance folk would stick to footballing matters instead of pointlessly mud-slinging based on nothing more than personal grudges, hearsay and BS rumours from mysterious but uncited 'sources'. Especially a day or two before a play-off. This thread was posted by someone looking to say 'thank you' to our owner and has been hijacked by the usual anti-Morris clique who, given our success in securing a place in the play-offs, have now resorted to attacking the club on the basis of ill-considered and inaccurate portrayals of our financial standing. It boggles the mind how faithless some folk on here really are.

 

Hallelujah.

The trouble with the inaccurate "Price of football" piece, and the subsequent references to it on here (and no doubt other social media) since, is that this kind of misinformation quickly becomes "FACT" as it gets repeated and referred to by people who really don't know what they're talking about!

[ramblur]

Mel loans his money to Sevco 5112, which then buys shares in the club, thus financing the club. As his loan is to Sevco, then that is the company that will repay same. I can see 2 likely scenarios in which this could happen:-

1) Someone buys the club, which would entail the purchase of Sevco shares , and thus the loan could be repaid out of the proceeds ( or the loan could be cancelled as part of the process).

2) We become established in the Prem and the club finds itself in a position to be able to pay dividends to Sevco 5112, again providing funds in Sevco to chip away at the loan.

I've discounted the possibility of a capital reduction by the club, because it's hardly a bloated cash cow awash with funds it doesn't need, which could be returned to its shareholder.

[Mihangel]

2 hours ago, 86 points said:

OK, I've held my tongue as long as I'm going to.

Are you are aware that SevCo 5112 and Derby County FC legally separate entities? SevCo's debts are not Derby's. You've argued that Derby County owes MM many tens of £millions but your post details the debts of another company altogether. Derby County FC are not in any way legally responsible for SevCo's debts which is most likely one of the reasons this transactional model was put in place. That is, to give the club a copper-bottomed guarantee that should Mel have a change of heart, it would be to his cost and not that of the club itself. 

On a general note, I really wish non-finance folk would stick to footballing matters instead of pointlessly mud-slinging based on nothing more than personal grudges, hearsay and BS rumours from mysterious but uncited 'sources'. Especially a day or two before a play-off. This thread was posted by someone looking to say 'thank you' to our owner and has been hijacked by the usual anti-Morris clique who, given our success in securing a place in the play-offs, have now resorted to attacking the club on the basis of ill-considered and inaccurate portrayals of our financial standing. It boggles the mind how faithless some folk on here really are.

 

Thank you.

[Shaftesbury st]

On 06/05/2018 at 19:10, RamLad1884 said:

We've been quick to slate the ownership and the management this season, but I think a big thanks is owed to Mel for persisting with Gary even where the results have gone sour. 

It only occurred to me that this is the first manager to see a whole season since we had Nigel Clough here, long may it continue. 

Even if we don't manage promotion this year, to see a change in the approach to management this year is encouraging. A truly settled club with a clear direction will always get to the promised land, whether it be in the short or the long term. 

 

?? Incredible we are thanking him for not sacking a manager who’s kept us there and there about all season. Not sure we should be thanking him at all, surely we should expect some reasoned rationale at our club, that’s all we’ve seen and it’s prob alt the first time under him too??

[ramblur]

On ‎09‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 06:56, reveldevil said:

Taken from the price of football article, which has it's own thread, it is in the accounts.

SevCo 5112 owed Mel Morris over £95 million at 30 June 2017, and he’s subsequently given them a further £21 million to keep them afloat since that date. This appears to be interest free, which is good to see. 

SevCo have other loans of about £45 million on top of Mel Morris’s generosity.

SevCo has received £161 million since 2015 from investors in the form of loans and shares.

Just to clear something up, I said at the time that the £45m figure looked similar to the consideration Mel paid to NAP, and so it turns out.£43.069m of preference shares were issued in Sevco 5112  , the proceeds of which bought out the previous owners. Preference shares are classed as debt, so can be added to the amount owed by Sevco 5112 to Mel.