RoyMac5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, Wolfie said: Not singling you out here but I've seen a few criticise Rowett's incomings and I'd like to know why? Other than the so far ineffective (and infuriating to me, at least) Jerome, IMO he's done pretty darn well, given the financial constraints. I had reservations about both Davies & Ledley, mainly due to age, but both have been a revelation for us. The jury is out on Lawrence for me still. Signs of something special there but seems to be a massive confidence player, which is a worry. If there were *real* financial constraints do you think he's have been allowed to sign Jerome? This is trotted out as an excuse for the average signings he's made - he promised us very, very good replacements didn't he? Davies has been wobbly at times especially at the start, as was Huddlestone (who I still don't think is owt special). Ledley was a lucky grab and is okay - but I'm not convinced younger versions wouldn't have been as good if not better and would have been investments for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSox Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Sure we do, he bought Jerome and Lawrence! Sarcasm. Wears thin after a while, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Just now, RedSox said: Sarcasm. Wears thin after a while, doesn't it? Not while Jerome continues to get picked it doesn't mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSox Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: If there were *real* financial constraints do you think he's have been allowed to sign Jerome? This is trotted out as an excuse for the average signings he's made - he promised us very, very good replacements didn't he? Davies has been wobbly at times especially at the start, as was Huddlestone (who I still don't think is owt special). Ledley was a lucky grab and is okay - but I'm not convinced younger versions wouldn't have been as good if not better and would have been investments for the future. This may well be a fair assessment. The piece that's missing is how close we were to signing players that fit this description. If it's true that we were being taken for a ride by clubs when we came sniffing, it may have been a case of Hobson's. We simply don't know who we tried to sign before we signed the last crop of aged players, who I agree, can only be seen as very short term sticking plasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, RedSox said: This may well be a fair assessment. ... We simply don't know who we tried to sign before we signed the last crop of aged players, who I agree, can only be seen as very short term sticking plasters. That is a major part of Rowetts job isn't it? He wanted to do it all. So we didn't learn much from previous 'hurried/desperate' signings bar it seems to give shorter contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: If there were *real* financial constraints do you think he's have been allowed to sign Jerome? This is trotted out as an excuse for the average signings he's made - he promised us very, very good replacements didn't he? No. No promises were made. Look back at what was said. That also referred to Ince and we got Lawrence in, who (so far) hasn't replaced Ince's quality or influence but might come good. If you're going to beat the club, at least do it with facts. I do believe the Lookman farce & Winnall injury derailed our plans in January. Jerome was brought in as an impact sub to get us over the line. Unfortunately it hasn't paid off & he's ineffective so far, as I said. 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Davies has been wobbly at times especially at the start, as was Huddlestone (who I still don't think is owt special). Ledley was a lucky grab and is okay - but I'm not convinced younger versions wouldn't have been as good if not better and would have been investments for the future. OK now I'm struggling to take you seriously if you're going to fail to give any credit for any of those 3. Younger versions would have cost a fortune (which we don't have) and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Wolfie said: No. No promises were made. Look back at what was said. That also referred to Ince and we got Lawrence in, who (so far) hasn't replaced Ince's quality or influence but might come good. If you're going to beat the club, at least do it with facts. I do believe the Lookman farce & Winnall injury derailed our plans in January. Jerome was brought in as an impact sub to get us over the line. Unfortunately it hasn't paid off & he's ineffective so far, as I said. OK now I'm struggling to take you seriously if you're going to fail to give any credit for any of those 3. Younger versions would have cost a fortune (which we don't have) and you know it. Not signing a JR replacement was Rowetts fault, he wants to be in charge of transfers. As for younger versions, well I guess for Ledley we'd have had Keef, for Hudds we'd have Elsnik and Winnall we got Jerome. Davies has been good in parts and Shackell or Pearce (occasionally) could have done as well. Its about creating a team to be better than the sum of its parts, which happened somewhat mid-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 14 hours ago, Andicis said: I know for a fact there is better out there. Mark Warburton immediately springs to mind. It's not like Rowett hasn't had money to spend. Mac 2 should never have been sacked. He wasn't treated fairly by Mel, and I resent it. The 'who would you have instead' argument is a massive red herring that we all get sucked into. FWIW Warburton doesn't appeal to me. But then again....I was very happy with the appointment of Pearson. And Rowett...and Clement. And I was pretty unhappy with giving the job to Steve Mc first time round. I was also very worried we would try to get Neil Warnock. ...or Steve Bruce. I hadnt heard of Marco Silva when he arrived at Watford. David Wagner..who? I chuckled 'well he will take them down' when The Tinkerman was appointed at Leicester.... Impossible to know who works....and there are lots of managers overseas who could be amazing that we have never heard of. I will give Rowett the season regardess. Then I would need to be Mel and hear what is he saying to decide further. So far - results have been pretty good. Playing style is quite poor. Signings have been largely quite good for the immediate task at hand. His personality is a plus...he speaks well, is a good figurehead for the club. The big big worry is his planning....buying older players, letting go of the flair players, not giving youth a chance. If he could convince me he was having a last tilt at promotion with what he had this season ....and has a fresh perspective and plan...then I would give him a free hand til at least Xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Wolfie said: Not singling you out here but I've seen a few criticise Rowett's incomings and I'd like to know why? Other than the so far ineffective (and infuriating to me, at least) Jerome, IMO he's done pretty darn well, given the financial constraints. I had reservations about both Davies & Ledley, mainly due to age, but both have been a revelation for us. Huddlestone also but I always saw that as a safe one. The jury is out on Lawrence for me still. Signs of something special there but seems to be a massive confidence player, which is a worry. Name me a manager whose transfers are always successful. Still wish we hadn't loaned out all the youngsters though. Feel free to single me out, I expect it when posting on a forum :-) First of all financial constraints, I haven’t heard anything come out of the club saying that he was unable to bring any player he requested, that said reading between the lines he has less money than others previously so I take your point. Yet I bet he has still spent more than the majority of managers in this league and most would jump at the chance of a budget that he has. That aside, the players he has brought in, have been done so to suit his style. Against Wolves the commentary team were wondering why we didn’t press, yet the simple answer is that we haven’t got the legs to do it. Huddlestone and Ledley have no mobility, this means we end up with a bank of 7, wisdom who I liked during his previous stint, is no longer an attacking full back due to his instructions so why spend so much on that position. Its not so much the individuals he has brought in, they can all to a certain extent claim to have done the job that they were brought in to do, however collectively they are GRs type of player, safe and boring. Jerome was brought in to run the channels, stretch the defence, I expect on a good wage as well, from talking to a Brum fan the other day he said GR good manager, when i said you’d have him back then he said hell no, his football is atrocious. That is why I criticise the incomings, not that they haven’t done the job asked of them, I mean they deployed four different tactics the other day, excelling at them at all, however defensive, ultra defensive, long and hoof ball, so as I said, I can see why some think they have been successful, however personally I think he has gone down the wrong route long term with the ex prem players on big wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 hours ago, Andicis said: Then why didn't he sign the players? He's had transfers windows to buy these players. The players he bought going forward, were dross. Jerome, Lawrence have both been utter gash so far. How is it to do with the squad that we play without a spine? Even the worst team can play with some pride, some backbone and some heart, yet we seem to be lacking in it. I don't think it's down to effort, I think it's down to awful, shoddy tactics. Why do we sit back and invite pressure onto ourselves? Why can't we gengen press like the top teams? Sure, we won't have as good personnel, but we could still give it a try. Our tactics are negative, pure and simple. One man is to blame for that. I haven't been enjoying the football we have been playing recently, but the reason he has been unable to purchase the players is because we already had a bloated squad on extremely high wages. The only way he got any budget at all was to sell off the family silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Not signing a JR replacement was Rowetts fault, he wants to be in charge of transfers. As for younger versions, well I guess for Ledley we'd have had Keef, for Hudds we'd have Elsnik and Winnall we got Jerome. Davies has been good in parts and Shackell or Pearce (occasionally) could have done as well. Its about creating a team to be better than the sum of its parts, which happened somewhat mid-season. I would assume that we agreed with JR to let him go when we had Lookman lined up, so wouldn't have been beneficial to either party to go back on it once the Lookman deal fell through at the last minute. Palmer was then probably a panic replacement due to this but is better suited to Vydra's role, so hasn't been able to fit in yet. Elsnik isn't a replacement for Huddlestone Jerome was brought in before Winnall got injured, so wasn't a replacement either. We should have had both. Maybe Keef would have been as good as Ledley. I doubt it but we'll never know. "Davies good in parts" - are you really that incapable of giving any credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Feel free to single me out, I expect it when posting on a forum :-) First of all financial constraints, I haven’t heard anything come out of the club saying that he was unable to bring any player he requested, that said reading between the lines he has less money than others previously so I take your point. Yet I bet he has still spent more than the majority of managers in this league and most would jump at the chance of a budget that he has. That aside, the players he has brought in, have been done so to suit his style. Against Wolves the commentary team were wondering why we didn’t press, yet the simple answer is that we haven’t got the legs to do it. Huddlestone and Ledley have no mobility, this means we end up with a bank of 7, wisdom who I liked during his previous stint, is no longer an attacking full back due to his instructions so why spend so much on that position. Its not so much the individuals he has brought in, they can all to a certain extent claim to have done the job that they were brought in to do, however collectively they are GRs type of player, safe and boring. Jerome was brought in to run the channels, stretch the defence, I expect on a good wage as well, from talking to a Brum fan the other day he said GR good manager, when i said you’d have him back then he said hell no, his football is atrocious. That is why I criticise the incomings, not that they haven’t done the job asked of them, I mean they deployed four different tactics the other day, excelling at them at all, however defensive, ultra defensive, long and hoof ball, so as I said, I can see why some think they have been successful, however personally I think he has gone down the wrong route long term with the ex prem players on big wages. He hasn’t spent that much on players if you consider the outgoings 12 Million for Ince 8 Million and rising for Hughes and 2.5 Million for Christie making at least 23 Million and savings on high earner wages to boot on those 3 alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, curtains said: He hasn’t spent that much on players if you consider the outgoings 12 Million for Ince 8 Million and rising for Hughes and 2.5 Million for Christie making at least 23 Million and savings on high earner wages to boot on those 3 alone Of course he hasn’t, all our incomings were freebies and aren’t taking any wages home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Of course he hasn’t, all our incomings were freebies and aren’t taking any wages home. Cheaper options on shorter contracts and you know it. Oh I forgot Russell and the reduction in his wages and the wages on Camara , and the loan of Shackell,Butterfield,Bryson,Martin,Lowe , Guy, Elsnik ,Vernam wages etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 23 hours ago, curtains said: Should he be sacked. No. If he comes out, apologises for doing exactly of what he's prommised and set about to change things. Yes. If he continues to be boring, doesn't use the youth, doesn't improve his game management and bring the squad age down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, curtains said: Cheaper options on shorter contracts and you know it. Oh I forgot Russell and the reduction in his wages and the wages on Camara , and the loan of Shackell,Butterfield,Bryson,Martin,Lowe , Guy, Elsnik ,Vernam wages etc I’m missing your point, what has this got to do with the players he has brought in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Of course he hasn’t, all our incomings were freebies and aren’t taking any wages home. In the view of those overly anti rowett ( not the ones who are balanced and have concerns) ,,, could rowett have kept Hughes and ince and brought in players too or would budget not allow that? Then if not should we have just kept the same team and banged on with it in the hope it achieved a level it got close to once and then was getting further and further away from achieving ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, archied said: In the view of those overly anti rowett ( not the ones who are balanced and have concerns) ,,, could rowett have kept Hughes and ince and brought in players too or would budget not allow that? Then if not should we have just kept the same team and banged on with it in the hope it achieved a level it got close to once and then was getting further and further away from achieving ? I’m not sure of the budgets so can’t answer that completely, however will have a go. Ince I beleive had to go, Hughes I don’t think suited GRs plans, so therefore in answer to your question no Ince could not have been kept and others brought in. However, once again I was asked about the players he brought in, I’m not sure what the ones going out have got to do with anything. If I give you a budget of 10 million today, how I geneterated that money has nothing to do with the way you spend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, AdamRam said: I’m missing your point, what has this got to do with the players he has brought in ? He’s in the bargain basement compared to the like of Wolves and Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, curtains said: He’s in the bargain basement compared to the like of Wolves and Villa. Walking to the ground with my Wolves mate on Wednesday he said that Boro have spent more on players than Wolves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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