England squad for the Holland & Italy game..

[Gaspode]

13 hours ago, jono said:

Like the look of stones .. Great control and touch under pressure 

As long as someone wakes him up before kick-off - he had a shocking first 10 minutes. Still of the opinion that he believes all the hype about himself (great passer, calm, ball-playing center-half) whereas he really needs to concentrate of just doing the basics against top opposition....

[AndyinLiverpool]

57 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

VAR would work if it was left to the discretion of the referee when to apply it - at the moment it seems the official is being 'advised' even when there's no need. There would initially be a flood of players demanding that the ref used VAR to change decisions, but judicious use of the yellow card would sort that out....

That would suggest that it is not for 'obvious' errors. Surely only an outside source could say whether a referee's decision was an obvious error.

[MuespachRam]

12 hours ago, McLovin said:

VAR is a brilliant invention. If there was another decision like there was with the Lampard goal in 2010, I’m sure you’d all be moaning

If left unchecked VAR will eventually totally kill the game. 

The whole joy of going to watch a football game is the feeling you get when your team scores a goal, that 5 second adrenaline burst you get just as you leave your seat....how many times have you hugged the total stranger next to you, climbed on your seat, done a dance to rival Pardews directly after your team scores....soon all this will be taken away from you as you sit in silence for 2 minutes waiting for a referee to watch a TV and decide that there was no fouls leading up to the goal and allow it to stand. 

Goal line technology Is totally different....it’s instant and not subjective and won’t ruin the natural flow of the game....that’s where it should stop though, if VAR is allowed to continue like this then Football will be even more sterile that it is now. 

[Gaspode]

18 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

That would suggest that it is not for 'obvious' errors. Surely only an outside source could say whether a referee's decision was an obvious error.

But that's where the problem comes in - the current implementation takes it away from the referee and overrides his authority - let him decide if he's not 100% rather than some non-entity sitting in a caravan in Slough....

[Day]

Makes you wonder, if the likes of Sky with the super slow mo cameras were not around to find the exact frame a player went down without contact, triggering rage amougst managers and fans would VAR even be a thing.

You can understand why managers get so angry, they are in jobs where they will be lucky to last a year, these decisions can knock weeks, months off that tenure. 

VAR won’t kill football, might take part of the game away for old farts, but every minute a new football fan is being born that will only ever know the game with VAR.

[Sith Happens]

15 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

If left unchecked VAR will eventually totally kill the game. 

The whole joy of going to watch a football game is the feeling you get when your team scores a goal, that 5 second adrenaline burst you get just as you leave your seat....how many times have you hugged the total stranger next to you, climbed on your seat, done a dance to rival Pardews directly after your team scores....soon all this will be taken away from you as you sit in silence for 2 minutes waiting for a referee to watch a TV and decide that there was no fouls leading up to the goal and allow it to stand. 

Goal line technology Is totally different....it’s instant and not subjective and won’t ruin the natural flow of the game....that’s where it should stop though, if VAR is allowed to continue like this then Football will be even more sterile that it is now. 

I am with you, I am in agreement with goal line technology but never been in favour of VAR.

I do not know the stats but it does seem in most games VAR has been used, certainly in the UK, that it has been checked and used to change or make a decision.

My view of VAR is that it should be used to cut out very very obvious errors, such as diving, or significantly on or offside.

Last nights penalty decision was not obvious, if he had given it in real time or not we would all have been discussing if it should or shouldnt have been but its still just opinion, and the ref has made a call initially, then changed his mind and I am not sure if he got it right either time, even in slow mo its hard to tell.

Some of the offsides its been used for have been so marginal, to be honest if it needs a line on the pitch to see if one players big toe is making him offside then we shouldnt be using it.

Referees make the headlines for obvious errors, but they dont happen in every game or even every week yet VAR is called into action all the time.

I cant recall which game it was recently but a flag went up for offside so the keeper didnt really make an attempt to keep the ball out, but the ref waited to blow his whistle and consulted VAR, in this case it was found to be offside but if it hadnt been then it would have been an issue, yes the players should player to the whistle but i dare bet if they see a linesman flag they are affected by this.

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

9 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I am with you, I am in agreement with goal line technology but never been in favour of VAR.

I do not know the stats but it does seem in most games VAR has been used, certainly in the UK, that it has been checked and used to change or make a decision.

My view of VAR is that it should be used to cut out very very obvious errors, such as diving, or significantly on or offside.

Last nights penalty decision was not obvious, if he had given it in real time or not we would all have been discussing if it should or shouldnt have been but its still just opinion, and the ref has made a call initially, then changed his mind and I am not sure if he got it right either time, even in slow mo its hard to tell.

Some of the offsides its been used for have been so marginal, to be honest if it needs a line on the pitch to see if one players big toe is making him offside then we shouldnt be using it.

Referees make the headlines for obvious errors, but they dont happen in every game or even every week yet VAR is called into action all the time.

I cant recall which game it was recently but a flag went up for offside so the keeper didnt really make an attempt to keep the ball out, but the ref waited to blow his whistle and consulted VAR, in this case it was found to be offside but if it hadnt been then it would have been an issue, yes the players should player to the whistle but i dare bet if they see a linesman flag they are affected by this.

 

Players shouldn't react to the flag. Play to the whistle. If it hadn't been offside, I wouldn't have had sympathy for the keeper.

[Sith Happens]

11 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Players shouldn't react to the flag. Play to the whistle. If it hadn't been offside, I wouldn't have had sympathy for the keeper.

Bet they do, players will have to change the way they play. But even so a ref shouldnt not blow just because he has the luxury of waiting to check VAR.

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

Bet they do, players will have to change the way they play. But even so a ref shouldnt not blow just because he has the luxury of waiting to check VAR.

Isn't that exactly what they should do? Let the game flow, then check when there's a chance. Even without VAR, they play advantage longer these days.

[jono]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

As long as someone wakes him up before kick-off - he had a shocking first 10 minutes. Still of the opinion that he believes all the hype about himself (great passer, calm, ball-playing center-half) whereas he really needs to concentrate of just doing the basics against top opposition....

I missed to first 15 mins .. Sounds like I was lucky, the commentators mentioned it as well. It has to be about that old Fergie word .. Concentration. The ability is there but in high level sport, total focus on the job is essential. 

[JDCFC75]

Unacceptable decision for the penalty which was never a penalty. 

[MuespachRam]

3 hours ago, David said:

Makes you wonder, if the likes of Sky with the super slow mo cameras were not around to find the exact frame a player went down without contact, triggering rage amougst managers and fans would VAR even be a thing.

You can understand why managers get so angry, they are in jobs where they will be lucky to last a year, these decisions can knock weeks, months off that tenure. 

VAR won’t kill football, might take part of the game away for old farts, but every minute a new football fan is being born that will only ever know the game with VAR.

VAR will kill the spontaneity of football.....

[jono]

4 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

If left unchecked VAR will eventually totally kill the game. 

The whole joy of going to watch a football game is the feeling you get when your team scores a goal, that 5 second adrenaline burst you get just as you leave your seat....how many times have you hugged the total stranger next to you, climbed on your seat, done a dance to rival Pardews directly after your team scores....soon all this will be taken away from you as you sit in silence for 2 minutes waiting for a referee to watch a TV and decide that there was no fouls leading up to the goal and allow it to stand. 

Goal line technology Is totally different....it’s instant and not subjective and won’t ruin the natural flow of the game....that’s where it should stop though, if VAR is allowed to continue like this then Football will be even more sterile that it is now. 

Totally agree ... It isn't flawless anyway .. An offside decision ? Still has to decide the precise moment the ball is played married to the players movement and multiple sight angles. . .. Part of the game is the rough and smooth of refs decisions. Goal line yes. It's yes and no in a confined controlled environment. I'd even have it for after match sanctions for divers and cheats, but the game has to flow, the ref has to be trusted to do his best. This is sport not science 

[TigerTedd]

If the car ref can’t make a decision in a couple of seconds, given the extra camera angles etc. then clearly it’s a marginal decision and the original decision should stand. The var should have a very short time limit in which they can make a decision to overrule the ref. That’ll make sure it’s only used for obvious errors. 

[Mafiabob]

9 hours ago, jono said:

Totally agree ... It isn't flawless anyway .. An offside decision ? Still has to decide the precise moment the ball is played married to the players movement and multiple sight angles. . .. Part of the game is the rough and smooth of refs decisions. Goal line yes. It's yes and no in a confined controlled environment. I'd even have it for after match sanctions for divers and cheats, but the game has to flow, the ref has to be trusted to do his best. This is sport not science

Yet unfortunately  some fans are actually brainwashed into thinking referees should be robots and get every decision right..... see the “pundits” for that. Alan Shearer the worst of them for it.

[Angry Ram]

23 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

How is 'obvious' defined here and who decides? By what mechanism is it decided? Obviously (sorry), it was obvious to the ref last night. In the end, that's all that matters, isn't it?

The first thing lawmakers should do is define their terms. I am not sure they have made it clear what 'obvious' means in this context.

I was listening to the radio yesterday and some expert was saying that the worlds 'clear & obvious', do not appear in the VAR rules. Somehow this term has become part of VAR but it's in the instructions.   I think it was Gabrielle Marcotti but could be wrong.

 

I kinda like football with mistakes anyway  But as David says, that's just old farts talking.