Leicester Ram Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I’d argue that this current Rowett team is good but suffers from a lack of balance in personnel and style. I’ve said this before but it reminds me of McClaren’s teams imbalance. Under McClaren at our best, we had a top 7 defence because our attack was the best in the league. We attacked so well that the defense didn’t have much to do because teams were so busy trying to stop us. Under Rowett at our best, we had a top 7 attack because our defence was the best in the league. We defended so well that the attack didn’t have to do much because teams were so busy trying to break us down. Hence us defying expected goals (12th in league for xG but 2nd in league table). But both of those have pitfalls because they’re so reliant on one aspect of the team performing well. We were good under Mac because we were hard to stop, we are good under Rowett because we’re hard to beat. We need to be able to do both. The first time Rowett’s really said something that didn’t sit too well with me in the press was before the Fulham game. Here’s the quote on Fulham: ”They play a very attractive style of football but with that attractive style of football comes opportunities to attack them, to put them under pressure” This is weird because it brings up the whole ‘is it entertaining’ argument surrounding DCFC that is completely irrelevant. He clearly has a chip on his shoulder about people saying his football’s boring so discredits attacking styles of play by implying they’re somehow implemented for fans enjoyment rather than effectiveness. Every style of football brings an element of risk with it, you can see that from games we’ve had this season. Being overtly defensive is a risk just as much as being overtly attacking is a risk. Our style is quite reliant on getting an early goal and sitting on it or just plainly not conceding. When we go a goal behind in a game, we’re in a lot of trouble because we don’t have the capability to pressure teams effectively. How many games this season have we come from behind to win? Just one, against Leeds. You can argue that’s because our defence is so good but when you look at when our attack has been a position to grab us a win, we don’t seem to deliver: - we have had 8 games this season where we’ve been drawing with 20 minutes to go but not gone onto win. 16 points missed because we can’t get a goal in the last 20 minutes. - times where we’ve scored goals in the last 20 minutes to win ourselves points? Only 4 times; Norwich, Leeds (A), Burton, Leeds (H). You need to be able to adjust to situations in games because it’s as simple as Murphy’s law; everything that can go wrong, will go wrong. We won’t always get a goal in the first 30 mins and be able to sit on it, so the team needs to be more capable of adjusting when that doesn’t happen. It’s obvious this is a big problem when we come up against teams like Fulham or even Reading earlier this season. They attacked us well and went ahead, then we never looked like coming back and winning, despite both sides having defensive frailties. It’s hurt us more with games like Sheff Utd, Bristol and Leeds in this bad run of form, we haven’t been able to find a goal when we needed to. We’ve had the same issues this season with attacking, flair based teams that McClaren’s teams had with well set-up defensive teams, like Dyche’s Burnley, who mugged us off at every available opportunity. It’s because neither team have been balanced enough to counteract certain styles, we’ve often played into oppositions hands. So to imply that attacking football is risky where our defensive style is not, really doesn’t sit well with me. Both McClaren and Rowett set up their teams to be imbalanced in the first season because they were just working with what strengths they had. Rowett’s had a mess of a squad with no real funds and McClaren came in outside a transfer window, only having loans and January. You can see how a few adjustments could make us so much more balanced and versatile. It’s like dominoes (not the pizza). - We needed someone more mobile next to Huddlestone/Thorne to cover their lack of pace but still defend well. We messed up Kieftenbeld so had to get in Ledley. - Getting someone more mobile in could have allowed us to incorporate Martin (one of the most prolific strikers in champ in past 5 seasons, still in his prime) by getting midfielders closer to him without sacrificing the shape. You can’t play a ball into a strikers feet consistently if you’re 30 yards away. - Having Martin in the team would have allowed us to use effective passing in and around the box, as well as the balls into space for the wingers we use currently, giving us different styles of attacking for different situations (i.e. last 20mins when we need a goal). Lumped balls into Jerome aren’t efficient and they’re easy to defend. There are obviously other ways to go about making us more attacking, not everyone loves Martin but those are just some quick changes that feasibly could have happened this season without sacrificing much if any defensive stability. You could see from Palmer coming on for Thorne on Saturday how different we looked having someone who could pick up the ball on the halfway line and actually ******* move with it! He changed the game instantly, imagine if we had that weapon all season. This team has been very good for stretches this year but I think anyone arguing we should go again with the same tactics next season (regardless of which league we’re in) is setting themselves up for disappointment. Build on the strengths by addressing the weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Yep, currently not quite good enough. More like the 'work in progress' many referred to before the season started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfit Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, europia said: Yep, currently not quite good enough. More like the 'work in progress' many referred to before the season started. I'd hate to think what the average age of this team is going to be once the 'work in progress' is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, superfit said: I'd hate to think what the average age of this team is going to be once the 'work in progress' is complete. If the progress is successful and leads us on the path of where we want to be as a club what the hell does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 24 minutes ago, RiddingsRam said: If the progress is successful and leads us on the path of where we want to be as a club what the hell does it matter? Good point but has much progress how we seen yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Good point but has much progress how we seen yet? Finish above 9th and 67 points that will be progress won't it? We're on 60 points now with 11 games to play. We're also level on goals scored on last seasons total 54, can't see us failing to score any in our remaining games so that's an improvement, we've also conceded 17 goals fewer as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 18 minutes ago, David said: Finish above 9th and 67 points that will be progress won't it? We're on 60 points now with 11 games to play. We're also level on goals scored on last seasons total 54, can't see us failing to score any in our remaining games so that's an improvement, we've also conceded 17 goals fewer as it stands. Progress over a season that was handicapped by pearson? I should hope so....but I'm not sure that's the best indicator of where we currently are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Progress over a season that was handicapped by pearson? I should hope so....but I'm not sure that's the best indicator of where we currently are. So which season would you suggest is the bar that Rowett’s progress is being judged on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, David said: So which season would you suggest is the bar that Rowett’s progress is being judged on? I don't think it should be judged on a previous season... It should be judged on our current form and if we can see the squad developing over the season...i.e players improving and integrating into a cohesive unit where we see a recognisable pattern of play and rising performances. Is that what you are witnessing david? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 48 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I don't think it should be judged on a previous season... It should be judged on our current form and if we can see the squad developing over the season...i.e players improving and integrating into a cohesive unit where we see a recognisable pattern of play and rising performances. Is that what you are witnessing david? Kash, your answer is tailored to suit your view that we have not seen progress under Rowett that's what I'm witnessing, let's not forget McClaren won one just game in his last 10 before being sacked yet you disagreed with the decision, so I fail to see how you can use current form or rising performances. We were conceding goals all over the place and the Brighton game was one of the worst performances we saw all season. Yet I'm going to guess here and say that you would be happy as Larry if the club announced Rowett's departure in the morning? Managers are reviewed at the end of the season, all over, it's a results business, regardless of what happened last year the club is on course for progress, the bar Rowett sets this season will be the bar he should be judged on next season and so on. The club will also have it's own KPI alongside results, Rowett still in the job would suggest he's hitting those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 6 hours ago, David said: Finish above 9th and 67 points that will be progress won't it? We're on 60 points now with 11 games to play. We're also level on goals scored on last seasons total 54, can't see us failing to score any in our remaining games so that's an improvement, we've also conceded 17 goals fewer as it stands. At the same stage last season, we scored 16 fewer, and conceded one less. the season before - a non-Pearson season - scored 7 fewer, conceded two less at the same stage. The surprising facts to me are that the defence was just as good before, and that the current team has scored more goals Probably not what we might have imagined. Its hard to generalise but - removing the Pearson factor - you might argue that overall we were a play-off contender - not good good enough for the autos - and we still are. The squad is a bit thinner, and the team is a bit older. So why are average attendances down from 29042 to 26697? is it the playing style? Is it failure fatigue? It would be interesting to know the views of those who have stopped going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, RamNut said: So why are average attendances down from 29042 to 26697? The published attendances haven’t been accurate in previous seasons, we was told this at the fans forum at the Yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 7 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Good point but has much progress how we seen yet? Since when ? Over the past 2 seasons then a fair bit. Were a lot more efficient unit now ( minus the minor blip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 7 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I don't think it should be judged on a previous season... It should be judged on our current form and if we can see the squad developing over the season...i.e players improving and integrating into a cohesive unit where we see a recognisable pattern of play and rising performances. Is that what you are witnessing david? It's what I'm witnessing. We're not showing it right now, but we're a better side than we were when Rowett first took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, RamNut said: At the same stage last season, we scored 16 fewer, and conceded one less. the season before - a non-Pearson season - scored 7 fewer, conceded two less at the same stage. The surprising facts to me are that the defence was just as good before, and that the current team has scored more goals Probably not what we might have imagined. Its hard to generalise but - removing the Pearson factor - you might argue that overall we were a play-off contender - not good good enough for the autos - and we still are. The squad is a bit thinner, and the team is a bit older. So why are average attendances down from 29042 to 26697? is it the playing style? Is it failure fatigue? It would be interesting to know the views of those who have stopped going. A combination of the football being crap, and being nearly men for so long that people can't afford/be arsed anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, Tombo said: It's what I'm witnessing. We're not showing it right now, but we're a better side than we were when Rowett first took over. If we are not showing it right now, do please share the facts / evidence /wishful thinking on which it is based. Truth is ,we may have improved in some areas and got worse in others, but as a functioning team? When Rowett took over we had the squad which had performed well and then suddenly plummeted performance wise, for reasons that were hard to fathom. Sounds familiar ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, David said: The published attendances haven’t been accurate in previous seasons, we was told this at the fans forum at the Yard. What was the reason? and by how much were they out? Do we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, RamNut said: What was the reason? and by how much were they out? Do we know? Didn't go into details, I will hunt out the video and find a timestamp for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, RamNut said: What was the reason? and by how much were they out? Do we know? Mel said 2000 I believe from memory . Could be wrong but I was amazed at the time that it had been miscalculated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 8 hours ago, David said: Kash, your answer is tailored to suit your view that we have not seen progress under Rowett that's what I'm witnessing, let's not forget McClaren won one just game in his last 10 before being sacked yet you disagreed with the decision, so I fail to see how you can use current form or rising performances. Indeed. Mac had the rug pulled from under him - given a job to do, stop relegation. He assessed the squad and said it needed changes, which of course he couldn't do mid-season. Mel then sacked him. So there's no rhyme or reason for when managers get the shove from Mel, if they do what they were hired for or if they don't, watch out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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