Style v Substance

[ossieram]

32 minutes ago, Alpha said:

What view? That you have to play boring negative hoofball to win games? 

I suppose it is. Yeah, I don't think you do. 

Who is playing negative hoofball? Do you class the pass made by Huddlestone for Weimann to run onto as hoofball or a good long pass? Hoofball to me is when defenders just whack the ball aimlessly up field and just hope that somebody in the team manages to latch onto it. We don't do that.

[Curtains]

Just now, Alpha said:

Because you associate McClaren with good football?

Because the criticism aimed at Rowett has been that his football is ugly and dull. Nothing to do him not being McClaren

Ugly and dull. 

2nd half last night was far from that. 

McClaren tried to play total football under all circumstances ?

[Alph]

5 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Who is playing negative hoofball? Do you class the pass made by Huddlestone for Weimann to run onto as hoofball or a good long pass? Hoofball to me is when defenders just whack the ball aimlessly up field and just hope that somebody in the team manages to latch onto it. We don't do that.

Was a bit harsh to be fair. I just find our games scrappy and dull and quite reactionary 

 

[Curtains]

10 minutes ago, BOB BIGGS said:

There was general feeling that although Dave Mackay brought in a number of exceptional players to add to Clough's squad, success wasn't necessarily going to last...it didn't!

Very true so can we equate that with what Rowett is trying to achieve at Derby.  

Building long term from a solid base 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, curtains said:

Ugly and dull. 

2nd half last night was far from that. 

McClaren tried to play total football under all circumstances ?

The football has essentially been ugly and dull curtains...

The second half performance was an improvement in that the players actually played to each other's feet rather than scripted diagonal balls.

I rather got the impression that this was all off script but it showed the players can actually play real football if they are allowed to by gr.....I wonder if he is too controlling of the players and too obsessed with matching other teams set ups rather than just concentrating on ours?

Perhaps he will learn something from it....Perhaps not

Middlesbrough might give us an insight but he seems a stubborn bugger to me so I'm not overly optimistic.

[King Kevin]

Building long term from a solid base means you need to buy younger players , some of the one's GR has bought will be collecting their pensions soon,Seriously they will only last a season or two.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, King Kevin said:

Building long term from a solid base means you need to buy younger players , some of the one's GR has bought will be collecting their pensions soon,Seriously they will only last a season or two.

That’s what the academy is for and that’s what many have been calling for. 

Incidentally U23s at PP Friday night against the Foxes and I  will be there and I’m looking forward to it already. 

[Curtains]

12 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

The football has essentially been ugly and dull curtains...

The second half performance was an improvement in that the players actually played to each other's feet rather than scripted diagonal balls.

I rather got the impression that this was all off script but it showed the players can actually play real football if they are allowed to by gr.....I wonder if he is too controlling of the players and too obsessed with matching other teams set ups rather than just concentrating on ours?

Perhaps he will learn something from it....Perhaps not

Middlesbrough might give us an insight but he seems a stubborn bugger to me so I'm not overly optimistic.

I’m going to that game on Saturday I think it is a toughie. 

I believe we need to start against them at a high tempo.  

 

[Alph]

10 minutes ago, curtains said:

Ugly and dull. 

2nd half last night was far from that. 

McClaren tried to play total football under all circumstances ?

There you go about McClaren again. 

I think I've lost the point you're trying to make.

I'd rather watch a McClaren team than a Rowett one. I'd rather watch a Pep team than a Mourinho one. I'd rather watch Spurs than Chelsea. I'd rather watch Watford than Burnley. 

You can play beautiful football and win titles. You can play like Swansea and get promoted. You can play like Barcelona and win the Champions League. You can also do all those things as Burnley and Chelsea under Di Matteo. There's not just a Pep style or a Pulis style. 

All I said was i find Derby boring and it's not a case of you have to win ugly or lose pretty. You mentioned McClaren. It's you that's bothered about him. 

I'm bothered about having a good time at football. Which I don't get at Derby.

If that's alright? I should have checked it was ok first. 

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

There you go about McClaren again. 

I think I've lost the point you're trying to make.

I'd rather watch a McClaren team than a Rowett one. I'd rather watch a Pep team than a Mourinho one. I'd rather watch Spurs than Chelsea. I'd rather watch Watford than Burnley. 

You can play beautiful football and win titles. You can play like Swansea and get promoted. You can play like Barcelona and win the Champions League. You can also do all those things as Burnley and Chelsea under Di Matteo. There's not just a Pep style or a Pulis style. 

All I said was i find Derby boring and it's not a case of you have to win ugly or lose pretty. You mentioned McClaren. It's you that's bothered about him. 

I'm bothered about having a good time at football. Which I don't get at Derby.

If that's alright? I should have checked it was ok first. 

No you don’t need to ask me mate. 

Watching the Football you like is your perogotive .

?

I promise not to mention him again 

[Bris Vegas]

You can play attacking football by dominating possession, and you can play defensive football by dominating possession. You can play attacking football without the ball, and you can play defensive football without the ball.

I personally prefer us to play attacking football with the ball. I prefer to watch that style of football as I prefer to watch technical players get on the ball, move it quickly and progress up the pitch.

There is no 'right way' of playing. The four types of football I just mentioned above have all had success stories, and they've all had failures too.

Under McClaren it was obvious what we tried to play. Is it obvious under Gary Rowett? Is the idea we just play clinical attacking football but in a manner which doesn't see us dominate the ball?

You can be an exciting counterattacking side. You can also be a slow, boring counterattacking side. I'd say we lean more towards the latter, but the players available at Rowett's disposal has a lot to say for that.

I've barely watched Derby this season. Think I've only seen 3 games live (on the TV). That's because I find them boring to watch. If Man City are playing at the same time, I prefer to watch them.

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

26 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

You can play attacking football by dominating possession, and you can play defensive football by dominating possession. You can play attacking football without the ball, and you can play defensive football without the ball.

I personally prefer us to play attacking football with the ball. I prefer to watch that style of football as I prefer to watch technical players get on the ball, move it quickly and progress up the pitch.

There is no 'right way' of playing. The four types of football I just mentioned above have all had success stories, and they've all had failures too.

Under McClaren it was obvious what we tried to play. Is it obvious under Gary Rowett? Is the idea we just play clinical attacking football but in a manner which doesn't see us dominate the ball?

You can be an exciting counterattacking side. You can also be a slow, boring counterattacking side. I'd say we lean more towards the latter, but the players available at Rowett's disposal has a lot to say for that.

I've barely watched Derby this season. Think I've only seen 3 games live (on the TV). That's because I find them boring to watch. If Man City are playing at the same time, I prefer to watch them.

 

Apart from the watching man city bit you are right!?

But I've taken to watching our under 23's....some really nice football being played and with a tidy pattern of play that's easy to discern.

[Curtains]

Just now, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Apart from the watching man city you are right.?

But I've taken to watching our under 23's....some really nice football being played and with a tidy pattern of play that's easy to discern.

Are you there Friday  night mate. 

[Alph]

7 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

Would you rather win the title playing like Mourinho or finish second playing like Pep?

As a neutral I enjoy watching City this year, but as a Derby fan I'd rather see us win things playing to the team strengths. At the moment that's not playing an all out attacking passing game.

Ive been happy, so far, with the way things are progressing.

Tbh I don't think Mourinho plays dull football. He seems to drop onto the back foot against better or equal sides. Against the rest though his teams can be great fun.

I guess if the question was Pulis or Pep... I'd say Pep tbh. But that's just me. Because I don't actually gain anything from winning the league. Besides by the time we've won it i'd probably have lost interest.

But I think it's more the point that you can do it in any way.

High pressing, deep sitting, counter attacking, long ball, lots of crosses, very few crosses etc etc

Rowett doesn't come with any guarantees. And I just don't think Derby are fun. 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

14 minutes ago, curtains said:

Are you there Friday  night mate. 

No,working noons?

I'll have to slum it on Tuesday instead?

[needles]

If we win, I'm happy. If we lose I'm not.

Style gets bonus points, but, really comes massively second for me. Totally get why some disagree though.

[Alph]

3 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

This is correct and at the moment an attacking passing game isn't our strength.

 

I think some fans (and this is not aimed at you Alpha) have pre conceived ideas of how Rowett teams play from his previous jobs and are now unwilling to change those views however this team plays.

 

I lost some interest in the Clough years so I do know how you feel. I hope Gary can produce a team that excites you again!

 

 

You know what? You can aim the second bit at me because I'm guilty of it. I saw his previous sides and I've seen what he's done here and I just assume tbh that his football isn't for me.

It could simply be that he's not had the ingredients to serve up owt better. Hopefully so.

I didn't mind the Clough years because of where we were coming from. Davies-Jewell etc. The financial situation. I know some people just got too bored of it. 

I certainly don't want him sacked though. If he's going to hang then give him the rope to do it himself. Keep changing will mean we never quite know what a manager was aiming for 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, ossieram said:

Who is playing negative hoofball? Do you class the pass made by Huddlestone for Weimann to run onto as hoofball or a good long pass? Hoofball to me is when defenders just whack the ball aimlessly up field and just hope that somebody in the team manages to latch onto it. We don't do that.

On the whole I agree but first half last night was classic hoofball.

4 attacking players stood in a line and Keogh or Huddlestone just punting in a general forward direction.

[Inverurie Ram]

Just like Jim Smith in this (joy) division, we will get out of it with substance and that is what Gary Rowett is doing.

We will add style just like Jim Smith did when we get back into the Premiership. Simplicity is Genius. Enjoy the results.

 

[clarkeram7]

Is it just me who prefers this style of football? I mean we aren't the finished article and like Rowett said we know we can play more consistently than these 10/15 min spells in games but when we click we look awesome. The Reading game is huge exception, we lost the goals at the wrong time paired with losing Ledley and Keogh. The third one by Davies killed the game when maybe if we'd scored first we course have taken something. 

Without looking at the stats we must be creating more chances in games on average than the last two seasons at least. Also the people who are giving Huddlestone abuse don't understand football, if you're looking for a ankle biting midfielder who dashes about he isn't and has never been that. He's suffered because all season he hasn't had that player next to him, but when he gets a yard of space he's our best playmaker and attacking threat. Some of the balls he was playing the other night were top top quality.. refreshing from the side ways stuff we we're playing last few years. He's been instrumental in the build up to most goals we have scored.