What are the reasons to keep faith in Rowett?

[metalsheep02]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

So is 18 league games enough time for a Manager to start turning things around? Is that now the remit for a new Derby manager, you have 20 games???

The OP drew comparisons between Smith's tenure and Rowett's. After 20 games Smith had made positive progress, we were moving up the league after a poor start. had a clear pattern of play and played exciting football. Under Rowett all available evidence points to regression and stagnation, how long we tolerate that for is not a matter for me to decide on but it would not be unreasonable to suggest that we should have seen some forward momentum by now.

The thread is entitled 'reasons to keep faith in Rowett' - trying to make a tenuous link with Jim Smith's tenure 20 years ago does not give me any reason to keep faith with Rowett. 

[Day]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I've seen the Wilder stuff.

Rowett should know how difficult transfer windows ARE. So this one was particularly tricky, even less reason to gamble on letting Bryson go then. He's had a reasonable turnover of players and a reasonable time to set a pattern of play going. He's also started to 'name and shame' individual players, true colours coming through from Gary.

Roy, not to be rude in anyway but I think one topic we will never agree on is questioning Rowett in September. Not ignoring your question, I just feel that by answering it we'll be going round in circles. Rather than turn this into a David and Roy show, interested to sit back and see what others have to say, expecting some to agree with you, others to agree with me (hopefully).

Doesn't appear to be a landslide Rowett in or out just yet, will have to shake it all around at Cardiff on Saturday though.

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Roy, not to be rude in anyway but I think one topic we will never agree on is questioning Rowett in September...

Doesn't appear to be a landslide Rowett in or out just yet, will have to shake it all around at Cardiff on Saturday though.

No, but we're not doing the questioning, Mel et al would be. We're just discussing hypotheticals and feeling out how the land lies.

For me I see no reason not to question Rowett now, and perhaps Mel will just take a check on how things are going. There is no set or agreed time to give a manager. In the end results will do it I think.

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No, but we're not doing the questioning, Mel et al would be. We're just discussing hypotheticals and feeling out how the land lies.

For me I see no reason not to question Rowett now, and perhaps Mel will just take a check on how things are going. There is no set or agreed time to give a manager. In the end results will do it I think.

We all know you would like McClaren mk111

[Day]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

No, but we're not doing the questioning, Mel et all would be. We're just discussing hypotheticals and feeling out how the land lies.

For me I see no reason not to question Rowett now, and perhaps Mel will just take a check on how things are going. There is no set or agreed time to give a manager. In the end results will do it I think.

I don't see it as discussion hypotheticals, I'm throwing them out there and you are batting them straight back with he's had plenty of time which I will disagree with you on. Strongly.

Entitled to your opinion, one that I respect and that I'm looking to change, but there seems to be no allowances for anything at all in that he's had the time thats it. 

Don't think he's got off to the best of starts with you anyhow, selling Hughes and then dropping Martin who you have defended with great honour all summer.

Only so much I can bowl before my arm gets tired  

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Don't think he's got off to the best of starts with you anyhow, selling Hughes and then dropping Martin who you have defended with great honour all summer.

Only so much I can bowl before my arm gets tired  

I'm sad that he couldn't find a way to play Hughes (see last season) and now Martin, two talented footballers. But players come and go, so that isn't the reason for me feeling Rowett isn't up to the job.

I'm not looking to hit you for six, but other than 'the limited time' here I can't see much logical reasoning so far to keep Rowett. Only emotional and that's not enough.

[Jimbo Ram]

24 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said:

The OP drew comparisons between Smith's tenure and Rowett's. After 20 games Smith had made positive progress, we were moving up the league after a poor start. had a clear pattern of play and played exciting football. Under Rowett all available evidence points to regression and stagnation, how long we tolerate that for is not a matter for me to decide on but it would not be unreasonable to suggest that we should have seen some forward momentum by now.

The thread is entitled 'reasons to keep faith in Rowett' - trying to make a tenuous link with Jim Smith's tenure 20 years ago does not give me any reason to keep faith with Rowett. 

I think it is relevant as it shows that Managers need time. I genuinely believe there is no quick fix here.

[Jimbo Ram]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm sad that he couldn't find a way to play Hughes (see last season) and now Martin, two talented footballers. But players come and go, so that isn't the reason for me feeling Rowett isn't up to the job.

I'm not looking to hit you for six, but other than 'the limited time' here I can't see much logical reasoning so far to keep Rowett. Only emotional and that's not enough.

So who is next for the poisoned chalice then Roy Mac? How long would you give the new Manager? Longer than Rowett to turn it round? If the new Manager gets off to a poor start do you sack him after 10 games? When does it end? This is no way to run a successful football club, any business in fact. Used to tease my Dirties supporting cousin about how Leeds had turned in to a circus with how they were managed and sacked manager after manager...we are becoming the new Leeds...

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

So who is next for the poisoned chalice then Roy Mac? How long would you give the new Manager? Longer than Rowett to turn it round? If the new Manager gets off to a poor start do you sack him after 10 games? When does it end? This is no way to run a successful football club, any business in fact. Used to tease my Dirties supporting cousin about how Leeds had turned in to a circus with how they were managed and sacked manager after manager...we are becoming the new Leeds...

Chose a manager who plays football 'the Derby Way' so that while rebuilding the team there is hope and entertainment for the fans. We should be lucky to be the new L**ds shouldn't we?

[Day]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm not looking to hit you for six, but other than 'the limited time' here I can't see much logical reasoning so far to keep Rowett. Only emotional and that's not enough.

Well that's more than me as I've yet to see any logical reasoning for getting rid other than we're a bit bored of the football.

Results wise, the table, I've seen much worse. Much much worse.

[metalsheep02]

12 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I think it is relevant as it shows that Managers need time. I genuinely believe there is no quick fix here.

Well based on progress so far Rowett certainly needs more than six months.

[Jimbo Ram]

13 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said:

Well based on progress so far Rowett certainly needs more than six months.

His record is won 8, drawn 5 and lost 6, 42% win rate. Hardly a disaster....

[IlsonDerby]

1 hour ago, David said:

He was, but Johnson may also have been the one there was no interest in. Rowett pretty much said we was working to the limit, Bryson had to go to fund incomings. Obviously Keith was part of that plan and didn't work out.

Guess it all comes back to who do you blame for that, easy to say Rowett but I give him the benefit of the doubt through lack of information, you really need the timeline of events to cast judgement. To think had the paperwork been done correctly first time round he would be a Derby player today.

Not saying everything would be rosy, could have picked up an ACL first game, it's all if's but's an maybes. 

Just to counter argue myself for a second, if a player such as this has such an important role, why only get one, doesn't that leave us thin of numbers? It does, I guess that's part of having a small squad. 

Counter counter myself, may have been in for more but they simply wasn't available or couldn't afford. Can't expect a manager to have an endless list of what if targets which have been fully scouted and vetted. 

The Bryson deal was done hours before our shambles with Keith. I'd suggest that we could have kept Cardiff waiting longer, it wasn't like there wouldn't have been other offers for him (i.e. interest from Burton to replace Irvine). Was such a poor showing from us. 

[metalsheep02]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

His record is won 8, drawn 5 and lost 6, 42% win rate. Hardly a disaster....

Yes, I will give you that and it does give some perspective and hope.

If he was sacked today, do you think another club would take him based on what he has achieved at Derby?

[Mostyn6]

6 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

His record is won 8, drawn 5 and lost 6, 42% win rate. Hardly a disaster....

sadly, I'm not sure it's results that are the problem. It we were playing well and being unlucky, it's more forgivable than stealing a win with a rubbish performance. 24% possession was embarrassing, that's effectively us just turning up, but not playing. We had better stats under Jewell in the PL.

[ramblur]

5 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

The Bryson deal was done hours before our shambles with Keith. I'd suggest that we could have kept Cardiff waiting longer, it wasn't like there wouldn't have been other offers for him (i.e. interest from Burton to replace Irvine). Was such a poor showing from us. 

Should we have kept Cardiff waiting to the last minute? We thought the Keith deal was done.

Bryson had to go before we got Keith in.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, ramblur said:

Should we have kept Cardiff waiting to the last minute? We thought the Keith deal was done.

Bryson had to go before we got Keith in.

Because of FFP I suspect 

[AdamRam]

I can only see reasons to replace rowett, admittedly my preference would have been not to bring him in the first place so my views may be tainted.

We are already 11 points off Cardiff only 9 games into the season, and whilst you don't win promotion in October you can certainly put yourself in a position to make it very difficult to achieve.  Had Pearson not been at the helm last season we would imo have finished top 6, hypothetical I know.

Rowetts team ethos is all wrong, he plays a system that is not suited to the players, people say it's not his own team however he has brought in 6 of those that played last night.  Teams in the main that get out of this league are set up to be attacking, they score goals, if he was winning then I'd happily sit there and applaud his style but he is not, he is far from it.

The Jan window will not be any better, why do we think that he will bring in better players when he failed to do so in the summer, you only have to look how difficult this window is by looking at last season and how we couldn't bring our main targets in despite us being at the right end of the table.  Add in now that he is getting a reputation for playing a negative brand of football, what players that are an improvement on what we have, would want to come here, even if at best he gets us challenging for promotion which is unlikely.

There will be plenty of performances like last night on the horizon under rowett, people tend to ignore his playing style at Birmingham however this is his style, it's not pretty and it's not effective, if he wants to go down this route he should watch a couple of DVDs of Billy's time here.  Those hoping he will change his style will be disappointed, he will not play 442, 352 etc...he is a reactive manager not a positive one, if he was he would have changed the players an or set up in the last two away games long before we conceded the first goal.

Unfortunately like this post, it's going to be a long boring season going nowhere, for me he has done the damage by selling our best players, and hopefully when he is finally replaced we will get a manager that can work with the players at his disposal with minimum change, it can be done in this division as has been proved by new and old heads over this and past seasons.

[Inglorius]

11 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

His record is won 8, drawn 5 and lost 6, 42% win rate. Hardly a disaster....

Hardly great either though by Rowetts own stated target of Top 2/Top 6

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Moist One said:

sadly, I'm not sure it's results that are the problem. It we were playing well and being unlucky, it's more forgivable than stealing a win with a rubbish performance. 24% possession was embarrassing, that's effectively us just turning up, but not playing. We had better stats under Jewell in the PL.

I would love to believe that but I don't think it's true, may have been in the past but not now.

I can only speak for the online side but go back and look at any topic, as soon as we concede it's this is s***, crap, same old Derby, bottle jobs.....instant reactions, some of which are being seen through the radio.

"We should be beating teams like this" is becoming increasingly common, it's not we should be playing better.

Take Hull game for example, you had a couple of members, one of which was Bris complaining we were actually played poorly, he was shut down by almost everyone because we won 5-0.

Another member was also complaining about the lack of possession, again largely shut down because it's the scoreline that counts.

Last night was an exception to this, may have triggered this myself by posting the 80% possession stats although to be fair Radio Derby made sure we knew a battering was taking place. 

Performances are only picked apart when we haven't won. This forum is empty at 5pm, have stats to prove it. Last night we had over a thousand on, Birmingham wasn't far off.